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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing (Read 1546 times)
SkyChief
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Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:37pm
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Washington Supreme Court ruled against a florist who was fined for not providing services for a gay couple's wedding.

U.S. Supreme Court intervened and asked Washington Supreme Court to reconsider their ruling.

Washington Supreme Court stands their ground and said that refusing to cater to gay people violates the Washington Law Against Discrimination (WLAD).

Liberty and Freedom took a punch to the gut today.   Cry

The slippery slope is firmly in place.     Government now controls production of wedding cakes and floral arrangements. 

Gary Johnson supports government control over bakers and florists.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-supreme-court-rules-against-florist-...
  
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kaz
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 3:47pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:37pm:
Washington Supreme Court ruled against a florist who was fined for not providing services for a gay couple's wedding.

U.S. Supreme Court intervened and asked Washington Supreme Court to reconsider their ruling.

Washington Supreme Court stands their ground and said that refusing to cater to gay people violates the Washington Law Against Discrimination (WLAD).

Liberty and Freedom took a punch to the gut today.   Cry

The slippery slope is firmly in place.     Government now controls production of wedding cakes and floral arrangements. 

Gary Johnson supports government control over bakers and florists.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-supreme-court-rules-against-florist-...


Isn't it in the bill of rights that if someone is paying you, then your Constitutional rights are all suspended?

Hmm ... maybe it's not ...

I can't think of anything more tyrannical than government forcing citizens to serve each other or how anyone could think that is a legitimate function of government
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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SkyChief
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:03pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 3:47pm:
I can't think of anything more tyrannical than government forcing citizens to serve each other or how anyone could think that is a legitimate function of government

It boggles the mind. 

Another stepping stone to enable the march towards real socialism.  This is a big one though, because it undeniably gives government the power to control production. 

The US Supreme Court should have struck down the initial (bad) ruling, but they didn't.  

Now the Washington state Supreme Court's (bad) ruling stands.

So, it starts with small business - bakers and florists. 

Where does it end?     It doesn't.     The foothold has been established.   

The boiling frogs won't care. So long as the heat is turned up very gradually. . .
  
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Jeff
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 1:37pm:
   Government now controls production of wedding cakes and floral arrangements. 
As long as they leave other categories of cakes pretty much alone, I don't have any objection, and I don't feel too much solidarity with people who use government power to solve their individual problems by forcing someone to do their bidding.

I create my own displays of flowers, and the world of fine art is full of impressive images of that sort of thing...

Will our government make it illegal to possess or even view the old Masters? Will I get points off if I like anything but state approved art?

Are we to that stage yet?

No. Let's all get together and try to make sure that doesn't happen.

Criminal charges will be filed against us if we stand by and watch republican forms of legal government disappear. We will be guilty of the felony of standing by when duty obligated us to act.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:18pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:10pm:
As long as they leave other categories of cakes pretty much alone, I don't have any objection. . .

That's exactly what they want to hear.   

People willing to sacrifice freedom for government coddling.     God help us.

It's not the government's job to dictate who gets wedding cakes.   Or floral arrangements. 
  
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Jeff
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
That's exactly what they want to hear.   

People willing to sacrifice freedom for government coddling.
What? I was talking about using government to impose your will on others at an individual level.

It amazes me that cases have made their way to the Supreme Court that concern forcing someone to do your bidding. You'd think even county courts would know enough to say that was foolish... Come to think of it, I bet most of them do!

I'm going to see if I can get a big government grant to enable me to prove my thesis, that counties where there are rarely if ever any murders also have pretty sensible courts. Smiley

I think the DHHS would be highly pleased to have me do such research, and I'm only showing a need for 1/2 a billion dollars to get started.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #6 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
It's not the government's job to dictate who gets wedding cakes.   Or floral arrangements. 
When the government mandates that private individuals must do the bidding of anyone who wants any kind of wedding cake, they are effectively letting some individuals dictate what other individuals must do or face penalties.

There is absolutely no way that sort of thing can be described as liberal. It's on the same moral level as serfdom or slavery.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #7 - Jun 7th, 2019 at 10:28pm
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If there were other options, and bouquets were easily obtainable elsewhere, the florists should probably file a harassment case.

That's what it is, isn't it?

The gay people stalk these conservatives and religiosos. They pick them out based on who is likeliest to refuse to serve them.

They're trying to make money.

Even if you were to agree with the ruling (which I don't) there's still a legitimate case to be made that the act of stalking people who will refuse to serve you and provoking that confrontation is still harassment.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:30am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 7th, 2019 at 10:28pm:
If there were other options, and bouquets were easily obtainable elsewhere, the florists should probably file a harassment case.

That's what it is, isn't it?

The gay people stalk these conservatives and religiosos. They pick them out based on who is likeliest to refuse to serve them.

They're trying to make money.

Even if you were to agree with the ruling (which I don't) there's still a legitimate case to be made that the act of stalking people who will refuse to serve you and provoking that confrontation is still harassment.
Every once in a while you make sense...

I do tend to think the purpose of these sorts of confrontations is to force people to do the bidding of others.

The problem began when the courts declared that opening your business to the public means you must serve any of "the public" that would like to engage your services or buy your products. The idea that this is a privately owned business whose owners have the ultimate say over who they choose to serve (no shirt, no shoes, no service) is subsumed by the idea that offering to serve whoever you chose to serve of any of the public who might want your service means you are a "pubic" business that must serve all the "public" without reserve.

The root of those decisions was racial discrimination, mostly in the former slave states, where many (most/) white business owners refused to deal with black people.

The result was to denigrate or eliminate rights of free association in order to combat racism, and that has been extended into a battle against any kind of discrimination, with notable exceptions. Lots of places have dress codes and won't serve you if you don't meet the approval of the people guarding the door. This gives country clubs and exclusive restaurants and night clubs lots of leeway to discriminate...

Anyway, I do believe that much of America has become less racist and more tolerant of 'others' when it comes to sexual orientation, but don't think it's because of laws that violate rights of free association, and overall, I think the right of free association is more important. Tribal minded bigots seem to be born in every generation... Do I have a right to refuse service to someone because I think they are a bigot and I hate bigots?

Edit: Should we talk about college organizations at universities supported by tax money that exclude white people? How is it reasoned that 'people of color' have a right of free association, but no one else does?

Disclaimer: I'm a person of color. I'm skin colored! If I had no color, I'd be invisible. Shocked
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Uh Oh - Here We Go Again With The Gay Wedding Cake Thing
Reply #9 - Jun 8th, 2019 at 10:25am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:30am:
The problem began when the courts declared that opening your business to the public means you must serve any of "the public" that would like to engage your services or buy your products. The idea that this is a privately owned business whose owners have the ultimate say over who they choose to serve (no shirt, no shoes, no service) is subsumed by the idea that offering to serve whoever you chose to serve of any of the public who might want your service means you are a "pubic" business that must serve all the "public" without reserve.


This is something I wouldn't have as big a problem with as the current status quo. But this isn't how it is.

As you point out, dress codes are allowed. Night clubs famously only allow 10s inside.

Discrimination is only wrong if it's against the wrong people.

Jeff wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:30am:
Do I have a right to refuse service to someone because I think they are a bigot and I hate bigots?


Absolutely. Or people with a name you don't like.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28269290/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/-year-old-hitler-cant...

...But it has to be a name you don't like for the right reasons. You couldn't just refuse to serve a gay guy because his name was Blake.

Jeff wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:30am:
Should we talk about college organizations at universities supported by tax money that exclude white people? How is it reasoned that 'people of color' have a right of free association, but no one else does?


Inquiring minds want to know.

Jeff wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 7:30am:
I'm a person of color. I'm skin colored! If I had no color, I'd be invisible. Shocked


No you wouldn't. You'd just be an albino. Or transparent.

I'm not posting a picture of a jellyfish because I know that's what your demonic Human sex drive wants me to do.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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