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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis? (Read 1677 times)
Jeff
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #10 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:08am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 8:50am:
In fact, the best philosophies will be based most strongly on pecking order. If you don't like your status, get rich, and buy more rights.

Taxes will always exist, and the most dominant will always decide what is the best use of them. Just deal with it.
These are two more things the Constitution was expressly created to prevent.

Since everybody is understood to have identical and equal rights, it was felt necessary to prevent an aristocracy of wealth from tyrannizing the common people. Just as importantly was the idea that the common people must be prevented from tyrannizing any sort of aristocracy that existed or arose.

The idea was to have tax revenue expended only on things that the government was expressly assigned to do (protect us from foreign invasion and domestic insurrection, establish a uniform system of money and weights and measures etc.) or on other like things that would be of benefit to everyone.

The idea that an aristocracy would seize control of the government and give tax revenue to their friends was anathema to the founders, just as was the idea that that great mass of ordinary people would seize control of the government and plunder the rich.
  
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kaz
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #11 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:09am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:28pm:
I mean the kleptocrats who believe in taxation (with representation).  Would they have thrived under the Nazi regime?  Or at least served it well?

I have so say, "yes."

Keep in mind that Hitler tried a putsch, a forcible revolution and it failed miserably.  Then he tried the elected representative route to power and he was a smashing success.   He was duly appointed chancellor by the duly elected president.  The duly elected Reichtag gave him full power through their constitutional lawmaking process.

He used his power just as ruthlessly as Jeff wants property taxes for public schools collected.  What could be more statist than that?







In a Nazi regime, you've have been Mrs. Kravitz looking out your binoculars at your neighbors all day trying to find anything you can to turn them in for
  

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kaz
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #12 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:12am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 12:11am:
As you might have guessed by now, I'm watching "Schindler's List" and drinking wine as I type this



I bet you whacked off all through that, wanker.  Being able to arbitrarily decide who lives and who dies for any reason or no reason is just the epitome of your troll fantasy
  

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kaz
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #13 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:16am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 11:47pm:
I guess the beauty of American statism is that anyone can be the Jew.

In Nazism, only the Jew could be the Jew, the archetypal enemy of the state.  After all, the Jew owned too much, did business too well, prospered disproportionately to others.  But in America, we are all Jews.   At least those of us who succed under freedom are the Jews. 

We all self-selected as the ones willing to make the effort to work hard and succeed in a land with minimal government interference.

It is only when the kleptocrats decide that we are earning "too much" that or efforts are rewarded more than others who are incapable of such efforts that the statists decide that the playing field should be "leveled" (after we have won so easily over our lessor opponents), that they decide to start stealing taxing our hard-earned wealth in the name of fairness.

Yes.

The tax-and-spenders on here would have been good little Nazis.  Too bad for them, they were born in the wrong era.



The committee couldn't make any sense out of this at all, which you guessed it, means you're awarded with troll recognition!



My God, you're a horrible writer.  I keep telling you I believe you, you were a government teacher.  Please, stop proving it now
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #14 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:22am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:00am:
Stalin's international socialist dream wasn't all that different than Hitler's national socialist dream, and the results were remarkably similar... And I hate Stalin's ideas and actions just as much as I hate Hitler's ideas and actions.


I didn't say you. I said people in general.

If you ask fifty random people who the most evil person to ever live was, you will get more Hitlers than Stalins.

Vastly more.

Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:00am:
Slavery is wrong no matter what it's based on.


If slavery not divided along racial lines is exactly as wrong, then where's the guilt? Where's the browbeating?

Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:00am:
Please point out the current slavery you are referring to. Thanks. I hope it's something more real than you being a slave to fashion...


https://www.oxygen.com/very-real/6-countries-where-slavery-still-exists

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/06/the-country-where-slav...

Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:08am:
These are two more things the Constitution was expressly created to prevent.

Since everybody is understood to have identical and equal rights, it was felt necessary to prevent an aristocracy of wealth from tyrannizing the common people. Just as importantly was the idea that the common people must be prevented from tyrannizing any sort of aristocracy that existed or arose.

The idea was to have tax revenue expended only on things that the government was expressly assigned to do (protect us from foreign invasion and domestic insurrection, establish a uniform system of money and weights and measures etc.) or on other like things that would be of benefit to everyone.

The idea that an aristocracy would seize control of the government and give tax revenue to their friends was anathema to the founders, just as was the idea that that great mass of ordinary people would seize control of the government and plunder the rich.


Oh, cool. Let's do that on this forum, then.

Have everyone with equal rights.

Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


Oh, damn. I forgot. The dominant decide who has rights and who doesn't. That should be the way it is.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #15 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:32am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:22am:
I didn't say you. I said people in general.

If you ask fifty random people who the most evil person to ever live was, you will get more Hitlers than Stalins.

Vastly more.


Stalin still has a large propaganda machine promoting his basic idea, democratic socialism.

Hitler has his advocates too, but they've been marginalized, even by the democratic socialists who believe that national socialism is evil and therefor try to portray it as some sort of "right wing" aberration, when all it really is is a different form of socialism.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #16 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:34am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:22am:
If slavery not divided along racial lines is exactly as wrong, then where's the guilt? Where's the browbeating?


https://www.oxygen.com/very-real/6-countries-where-slavery-still-exists

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/06/the-country-where-slav...


People who oppose slavery oppose slavery.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #17 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:38am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:22am:
Oh, damn. I forgot. The dominant decide who has rights and who doesn't. That should be the way it is.
You should expect that the dominant opinion on a libertarian forum is that everyone has the same equal rights.

If you find someone saying that some people (other than convicted criminals) should have more rights than others, they are probably not libertarians.

If you put up a good appearance at being human, and don't kill your Mother, you will be accorded the same rights as everyone else.

If people discover that you are actually a Vulcan dragon, they may question whether or not human rights apply to you...
  
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #18 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:41am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:22am:
If slavery not divided along racial lines is exactly as wrong, then where's the guilt? Where's the browbeating?


"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Notice race isn't mentioned.

Since you love commenting on American criminal justice so much, maybe you should learn something about it so you can have more intelligent conversations about it
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Would the Statists on Here have Made Good Nazis?
Reply #19 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:24am
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kaz wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:41am:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Notice race isn't mentioned.

Since you love commenting on American criminal justice so much, maybe you should learn something about it so you can have more intelligent conversations about it


I really don't give a flying rat crap about the American justice system except as it relates to libertarianism. I knew that was in there but I simply don't care. Though as an aside, if it wasn't in there, I don't think you could force people into community service, which is the only way to stop the very rich from driving recklessly. The fines are nothing to them.

Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 10:38am:
If you find someone saying that some people (other than convicted criminals) should have more rights than others, they are probably not libertarians.


Why? You're already making an assumption: That libertarians want rights for everyone. Why wouldn't I make the opposite assumption? Why shouldn't I conclude that libertarians want rights for themselves and not others?

Every other political philosophy is about naked self-advantage. The welfare queen wants more welfare and the big businessman wants less regulations while he's climbing to the top, and more regulations to crush competitors once he's at the top.

There aren't a lot of exceptions to this. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, even so, until you said flat-out that I didn't have rights.

And you proved it, too. So now you'd have to refute that, which I doubt you can.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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