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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist? (Read 696 times)
Little Biq Man
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #40 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 4:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 4:49pm:
You find a mention of slavery in the Preamble?

The purposes are real, they are why the American people created the government they did. The Preamble can also be correctly read as a description of the government's duties. and they don't include taking money or denying freedom.

Your extremely lame pseudo arguments fall flat.


Is it the preamble that was binding when the founders ratified the constitution, or was it the parts about returning fugitive slaves and taking money from people?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #41 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:09pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 4:57pm:
Is it the preamble that was binding when the founders ratified the constitution, or was it the parts about returning fugitive slaves and taking money from people?
As I've mentioned, according to SCOTUS, the Constitution must be read as a coherent whole that begins with the Declaration.

They were exactly right on that one! Smiley Smiley Smiley

The Fugitive Slave Act was a law passed by Congress you moron.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #42 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
As I've mentioned, according to SCOTUS, the Constitution must be read as a coherent whole that begins with the Declaration.

They were exactly right on that one! Smiley Smiley Smiley

The Fugitive Slave Act was a law passed by Congress you moron.


The fugitive slave clause is in the constitution, as cited above.

Citation needed of that SCOTUS opinion that the "declaration" is binding (I assume you mean to type "preamble").

EDIT to add:

I thought you always said that we should look at what the ratifiers thought, because SCOTUS is often wrong. 

If the founders thought the preamble should be binding, they must not have included black Americans "ourselves" in the sentence "Secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and posterity."

Right?




  
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Jeff
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #43 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:27pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:13pm:
The fugitive slave clause is in the constitution, as cited above.

Citation needed of that SCOTUS opinion that the "declaration" is binding (I assume you mean to type "preamble").
You are correct, although it takes care not to mention slaves... I tend to ignore parts of the Constitution that have been repealed, and not thinking about them lets me almost believe they never existed...

But for those slave state governments you like so much, it never would have...

Research on your own. Without the Declaration of Independence, there would have been no independent states to form a more perfect union. The body of the Constitution must be read for what it is, a an attempt to form a union that could survive so the independent states could protect the Rights and Equality and Liberty mentioned as reasons for fighting for Independence.

Because you have a weeny narrow mind, you can't grasp this, but SCOTUS did...

Like I said, do some research on your own, I'm tired of spoon feeding you and having you spit what I feed you in my face.

The entire concert of the Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, the  Body of the Constitution, and all of the Amendments are the coherent whole SCOTUS was talking about. Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
  

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Jeff
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #44 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:35pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:13pm:
If the founders thought the preamble should be binding, they must not have included black Americans "ourselves" in the sentence "Secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and posterity."

Right?
Right, your buddies the slave state governments were involved and made sure everybody knew they would not ratify the Constitution or join the Union unless their ownership of people as valuable livestock was preserved. Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry

Blame them... But wait, you'd rather blame Lincoln for pursuing the War to End Slavery in America that Congress declared.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #45 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:16pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 5:35pm:
Right, your buddies the slave state governments


Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Hancock, Henry, etc., etc.

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were involved and made sure everybody knew they would not ratify the Constitution or join the Union unless their ownership of people as valuable livestock was preserved. Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry


You don't have to convince me that the constitution sucks.  Both our history and our present show what a horrible government document it was and is.

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Blame them... But wait, you'd rather blame Lincoln for pursuing the War to End Slavery in America that Congress declared.


I blame him for leading one slaveholding country to invade another and pretending to have the moral high ground.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #46 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:54pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:16pm:
Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Hancock, Henry, etc., etc.
They were not the people who insisted that slavery be preserved in the new Union.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #47 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:56pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:16pm:
You don't have to convince me that the constitution sucks.
I disagree. After slavery was abolished, it was and is the best freedom document the world has ever known, right up until the "progressives" destroyed its purpose and intent and turned it upside down and inside out.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #48 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:54pm:
They were not the people who insisted that slavery be preserved in the new Union.


Give me some names, then.
  
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Re: Your Libertarian Paradise... Turns Out Socialist?
Reply #49 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:57pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:16pm:
I blame him for leading one slaveholding country to invade another and pretending to have the moral high ground.
The Union absolutely did possess the moral high ground. There is no doubt at all of that.
  

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