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SkyChief
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Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Jul 9th, 2019 at 5:12pm
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A rapidly growing number of counties in at least four states are declaring themselves 2nd Amendment sanctuaries, refusing to enforce gun-control laws that violate the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Elected sheriffs and county commissioners say they might allow some people deemed to be threats under “Red Flag” laws to keep their firearms.

A "Red Flag" law violates the 2nd and 4th Amendments by allowing Sheriffs or Police to confiscate a persons firearm(s) without a warrant or arrest.  The law give law enforcement the authority to confiscate firearms before any crime has been committed.

All Red Flag laws are patently unconstitutional, and the US Supreme Court looks the other way.

So Sheriffs in "Sanctuary" counties vow to not enforce any Red Flag laws on the grounds that they violate the 2nd and 4th amendments.

These Gun Control Sanctuaries have outraged California's Gun-Grabber Democrats.

Backers of the sanctuary movement say they want to take it nationwide. They are talking with like-minded activists in California, New York, Iowa and Idaho.

It's going to be hard to take back the country from the grip progressives have had since 1903.

So we do it one step at a time.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-sanctuary/emails-show-nra-link-to-u-...

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #1 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 5:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 5:12pm:
A rapidly growing number of counties in at least four states are declaring themselves 2nd Amendment sanctuaries, refusing to enforce gun-control laws that violate the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Elected sheriffs and county commissioners say they might allow some people deemed to be threats under “Red Flag” laws to keep their firearms.

A "Red Flag" law violates the 2nd and 4th Amendments by allowing Sheriffs or Police to confiscate a persons firearm(s) without a warrant or arrest.  The law give law enforcement the authority to confiscate firearms before any crime has been committed.

All Red Flag laws are patently unconstitutional, and the US Supreme Court looks the other way.
I'm pretty sure SCOTUS justices know about red flag laws and have opinions about them.

You know about standing to complain in court don't you? Someone has to show that they have been harmed by a red flag law before they can complain...

But SCOTUS already set a precedent by approving of seizure of property without charges or trials, so the precedent is bad...

Talk to your Sheriff about it.

Edit: I think most of the places that sort of thing is happening, the people think of themselves as conservatives, but we do have things in common with them. Smiley Smiley Smiley

  

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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #2 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 6:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 5:21pm:
You know about standing to complain in court don't you? Someone has to show that they have been harmed by a red flag law before they can complain...

Jeff, the Second Amendment is QUITE CLEAR about not passing laws that infringe on a person's right to keep and bear arms.

It is the job of the Supreme Court to strike down any and all Red Flag laws.   Nobody has to show that they have been "harmed" - that's not in the Constitution.   

"shall not be infringed" means exactly that.

It doesn't mean "shall be infringed only when absolutely necessary" or "shall not be infringed unless the Sheriff thinks someone might commit a crime"

The fact that the US Supreme Court willfully ignores violations of the Constitution is a HUGE RED FLAG!!!

It shows that SCOTUS is unwilling (or unable) to perform their duties, and that's a HUGE problem for law-abiding citizens.  We need justices that fully understand the meaning of the word "infringed".
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #3 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 7:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 6:49pm:
Jeff, the Second Amendment is QUITE CLEAR about not passing laws that infringe on a person's right to keep and bear arms.

It is the job of the Supreme Court to strike down any and all Red Flag laws.   Nobody has to show that they have been "harmed" - that's not in the Constitution.   

Yes of course. The Constitution doesn't mention "standing".

Nevertheless, the courts require that it be established.

SCOTUS also has decided to wait until the lower courts have a had a chance to "rule" on the law in question, and if the lower courts are in agreement, then SCOTUS likes to let their decisions stand.

It's an Article III thing, SCOTUS has appellate jurisdiction in most cases, and like I said, the precedent is bad.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #4 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 8:55pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 7:34pm:
SCOTUS also has decided to wait until the lower courts have a had a chance to "rule" on the law in question, and if the lower courts are in agreement, then SCOTUS likes to let their decisions stand.

It's an Article III thing, SCOTUS has appellate jurisdiction in most cases, and like I said, the precedent is bad.
The Bill of Rights is the Highest Law of the land.   Any State or Local Laws passed which infringe on an individual's right can be considered unlawful, and void.

That's why many states are becoming a "Sanctuary" state and will not enforce unlawful Laws.

Thankfully, all Courts are powerless to compel Local and State Law Enforcement to enforce unlawful Laws.

Also, the idea that one State or one county can impose different restrictions on a Constitutional right is expressely forbidden by the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
  
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #5 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 9:15pm
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These sanctuaries are the perfect solution.

You don't like guns? Don't go there.

Gun control fanatics are the type of people who probably own illegal guns. I believe they want the advantage, not the policy. In an area where everyone is allowed guns, they can't gain their advantage. It's not about safety either, unless they can have more safety than their neighbour.

This is the same deal you get with the castration policy for paedophiles in Alabama. You want to diddle kids and keep your nuts? Don't go there.

Let the results of the policy and the kinds of people it attracts and repels speak for itself.
- Opposition
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #6 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 10:14pm
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My interpretation of this:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Means I have the right to at least have the same technology and weapons the state has.  Tanks, jet-fighters, nukes, chemical agents, etc.
  
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #7 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 10:39pm
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yamcha wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 10:14pm:
My interpretation of this:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Means I have the right to at least have the same technology and weapons the state has.  Tanks, jet-fighters, nukes, chemical agents, etc.


I disagree with your interpretation of the  2nd Amendment protection.

The amendment doesn't give anybody a right to do anything.   It merely prohibits lawmakers from passing Laws that infringe on your right to keep and bear arms.   It doesn't mention technology.

The intention was ensure that citizens had access to the same weaponry that the standing army had.

Muzzle-loaded single-shot flintlocks were the "assault weapons" of the late 18th century.   The founders understood that citizens needed access to similar weapons.

Today, the standard weapon for the standing Army is the M4 carbine which fires the 5.56 NATO ammo.

The AR-15 is a similar rifle, and can be chambered for 5.56 NATO ammo.   These must be available to US citizens.

States that ban AR-15s are in violation of Amendmant II.
  
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #8 - Jul 9th, 2019 at 11:13pm
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You may be right.  My interpretation is to secure any means possible to defend the security of a free state.  So if just AR15 is enough then ...ok.

I think the old military had cannons too.

Do you think if all civilians were armed with AR15s it would be enough to defeat the US military and would you like to accompany me to the next AfroFuture Fest if I can get us tickets for half off?
  
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Re: Libertarians Establish Sanctuaries From Gun Control Laws
Reply #9 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 8:27am
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yamcha wrote on Jul 9th, 2019 at 11:13pm:
You may be right.  My interpretation is to secure any means possible to defend the security of a free state.  So if just AR15 is enough then ...ok.

I think the old military had cannons too.

Do you think if all civilians were armed with AR15s it would be enough to defeat the US military and would you like to accompany me to the next AfroFuture Fest if I can get us tickets for half off?
Modern soldiers have automatic rifles. The right of civilians to have automatic rifles is highly restricted, something that was said to be necessary during Prohibition when rival gangs in some big cities were using machine guns to shoot each other.

I assume that the U.S. military will be on our side. Why wouldn't they be? We are their parents and children and friends, their countrymen.

A well regulated militia was intended to be a substitute for a standing army, these days it should be a standby supplement to a standing army.

However you envision it, there is no authority granted to the government to disarm us. Self defense is a natural right, and the people of America did not create a government in order to grant it power to restrict or deny rights, but rather to protect them.




  

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