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The Opposition
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #30 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 11:20am
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Jeff thinks he knows what will happen. Free medicine and bread will turn out badly, but free education for all at least has the potential to turn out well.

This is a problem even if Jeff is right, simply because no one has the power to absolutely know the future, so people will disagree, even if they're wrong.

They think free medicine for all will work out well, which it actually has in some countries.

Even if they're wrong, once you establish that thinking you know what will happen gives you the right to take from some and give to others, that's a blanket permission because everyone does think they know, and it can't be proven or disproven until the future comes to pass.

Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 7:51pm:
Which policies, in the real world, lead us closest to the things we want for everybody? (OK, the lizard and you want lots of uneducated people so you can get cheap lawn service...)


Why do you always make it about this? How is it that you think the price of the same service will increase because everyone is educated?

I think you take issue with who is mowing the lawns, not how much they're being paid. You want a world where, the individual potentials and drives being equal, the twelve kids of Shoqueenda get the good jobs and the one kid Bob and Linda invested everything in ends up mowing the lawns.

You don't get that the incentive for Bob and Linda to have one kid and invest everything in him is the thing creating a world it's halfway pleasant to live in. Too many people? Too much competition? Too much unskilled labour and no jobs for them? People start to do this and win, and the population falls back.

The world without that incentive isn't sustainable because then, Bob and Linda just have as many kids as they can, too. Someone else will pay for their education.

The natural distribution is to have the one or two kids of hardworking parents start out a little better off, which is why people have fewer kids. This is the only natural factor that keeps poverty in check, so if you decide this distribution is unfair and fix it with a different distribution, your country will become a third-world shithole.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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SkyChief
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #31 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:39pm
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Democrats voted to fine Americans (ACA) for NOT buying Health Insurance.

All Democratic presidential candidates want illegal immigrants to get FREE Health Care.

Ponder that for a moment.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #32 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 11:20am:
Jeff thinks he knows what will happen. Free medicine and bread will turn out badly, but free education for all at least has the potential to turn out well.



They think free medicine for all will work out well, which it actually has in some countries.

"Work out well" is a relative thing.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #33 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:03pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 11:20am:
Why do you always make it about this? How is it that you think the price of the same service will increase because everyone is educated?
I mention it because your buddy Sacky Snack said we need to have lots of uneducated people so he can get cheap swimming pool maintenance. Smiley
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #34 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:08pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
I mention it because your buddy Sacky Snack said we need to have lots of uneducated people so he can get cheap swimming pool maintenance. Smiley


So how does the price of swimming pool maintenance rise just because the pool boys have been taught trig?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Little Biq Man
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #35 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:39pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
So how does the price of swimming pool maintenance rise just because the pool boys have been taught trig?


Jeff thinks if I'm hiring a pool boy and he tells me that he can do trig, I will immediately triple his pay.  Just because the pool boy can do trig doesn't mean he's automatically going to get paid more.  He'll have to find a job that requires trig and for which a premium is paid because people who can do trig are in short supply. 

Of course that is all based on Jeff's assumption that being educated in the public schools automatically means one can do trig.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #36 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 7:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
So how does the price of swimming pool maintenance rise just because the pool boys have been taught trig?
Ask the Sack, he seems to know more about how markets work than you do. Smiley

Speaking of markets, here's news about how Trump has helped screw them up:

https://reason.com/2019/07/11/the-global-trade-war-comes-full-circle/?utm_medium...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #37 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 7:34am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 9:39pm:
Jeff thinks if I'm hiring a pool boy and he tells me that he can do trig, I will immediately triple his pay.  Just because the pool boy can do trig doesn't mean he's automatically going to get paid more.  He'll have to find a job that requires trig and for which a premium is paid because people who can do trig are in short supply. 

Of course that is all based on Jeff's assumption that being educated in the public schools automatically means one can do trig.


Oops, I spoke too soon... You don't know anything about the market for labor either. Cry
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #38 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 10:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 7:34am:
Oops, I spoke too soon... You don't know anything about the market for labor either. Cry


Ah, the go-to libertarian argument. The sole trump card: You don't understand the free market.

If the free market is so mysterious that most people can't understand it, then no one should be relying on it, even if it works exactly as you say and proves free public school is good but free medicine is evil.

Relying on things you don't understand is called superstition, and taking the High Priest's word that he does understand has caused more suffering and death than any other instance of illogical thinking in your planet's history.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Jim Jordon: "There's no one on this committee that would support . . .
Reply #39 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 8:12am
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 10:00pm:
If the free market is so mysterious that most people can't understand it...
It's not. Most people can understand it, but apparently you aren't one of them.

The simple explanation is that if you have a lot of people with no skills or low skills, they have to seek jobs they can actually do, like cutting lawns and cleaning swimming pools, and the more people there are competing for those type of low skill jobs, the less they will be able to command as compensation. Supply and demand is pretty basic and simple.
  

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