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SkyChief
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Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:16pm
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St. Louis Park City Council announced its decision following a unanimous vote, saying it was banning the pledge in consideration of the city’s “diverse community.” 

This is Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar’s congressional district. 

Council member Anne Mavity said that she doesn’t believe the pledge is relevant, especially for illegal immigrants:

“Not everyone who does business with the city or has a conversation is a citizen.  They certainly don’t need to come into city council chambers and pledge their allegiance to our country in order to tell us what their input is about a sidewalk in front of their home.”

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13432

She has a good point.  If a City Council is willing to hear complaints from illegal immigrants, those immigrants should not be forced to pledge allegiance to any foreign country.
  
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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #1 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:16pm:
St. Louis Park City Council announced its decision following a unanimous vote, saying it was banning the pledge in consideration of the city’s “diverse community.” 

This is Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar’s congressional district. 

Council member Anne Mavity said that she doesn’t believe the pledge is relevant, especially for illegal immigrants:

“Not everyone who does business with the city or has a conversation is a citizen.  They certainly don’t need to come into city council chambers and pledge their allegiance to our country in order to tell us what their input is about a sidewalk in front of their home.”

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13432

She has a good point.  If a City Council is willing to hear complaints from illegal immigrants, those immigrants should not be forced to pledge allegiance to any foreign country.
Government requiring people to recite the Pledge of Allegiance is wrong. So is banning people from reciting the Pledge.

If you want to become a citizen, then it's fine to require that you pledge allegiance to our republican form of government as established by our Constitution. 

I think this went to the S. Ct. over requiring school students to recite the Pledge, and the majority held that they don't have to if they don't want to. You don't even have to stand up while other people recite it.

Illegal immigrants probably don't have any business complaining about the country they snuck into.
  

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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #2 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:10pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
I think this went to the S. Ct. over requiring school students to recite the Pledge, and the majority held that they don't have to if they don't want to. You don't even have to stand up while other people recite it.

Illegal immigrants probably don't have any business complaining about the country they snuck into.

Right. This is essentially pursuant to the Supreme Court ruling which makes the Pledge Of Allegiance optional instead of compulsory.

If the immigrant WISHES to recite the Pledge, they are free to do so.  But they will no longer be required to. . .   In St. Louis Park,Missouri anyway.

That makes sense, I think.   

I sure wouldn't want to be forced to say the Cuban Pledge of Allegiance, even if I were in Cuba illegally.
  
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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #3 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:10pm:
Right. This is essentially pursuant to the Supreme Court ruling which makes the Pledge Of Allegiance optional instead of compulsory.

If the immigrant WISHES to recite the Pledge, they are free to do so.  But they will no longer be required to. . .   In St. Louis Park,Missouri anyway.

That makes sense, I think.   

I sure wouldn't want to be forced to say the Cuban Pledge of Allegiance, even if I were in Cuba illegally.
Its actually hard for me to believe that St. Louis Park required people to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every time they went in the City offices...

It shouldn't affect people in the country illegally since they aren't supposed to be here anyway and have no business complaining while they are here.
  

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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #4 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 7:07pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:35pm:
Its actually hard for me to believe that St. Louis Park required people to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every time they went in the City offices...

Until this edict came down, the Pledge Of Allegiance was said by all in attendance at City Council meetings.    That is no more.   They no longer begin City Council Meetings with the Pledge Of Allegiance.

However, if an individual wishes to recite the Pledge Of Allegiance during his/her 3 minutes at the public podium, he/she is free to do so under 1st Amendment protections.

It's a good libertarian solution, and it is 100% constitutional.
  
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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #5 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 7:42pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 7:07pm:
Until this edict came down, the Pledge Of Allegiance was said by all in attendance at City Council meetings.    That is no more.   They no longer begin City Council Meetings with the Pledge Of Allegiance.

However, if an individual wishes to recite the Pledge Of Allegiance during his/her 3 minutes at the public podium, he/she is free to do so under 1st Amendment protections.

It's a good libertarian solution, and it is 100% constitutional.
There's nothing unconstitutional about opening a City Council meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance, but people opposed to it, those who don't want to recite it, have stopped the City Council from doing what they chose to so, and there's nothing libertarian about that.
City Councils are after all governments under the Constitution and hopefully do give allegiance to that form of government.
  

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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #6 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:15am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 7:42pm:
There's nothing unconstitutional about opening a City Council meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance...

Of course there isn't, but if there illegal immigrants in attendance, it would be improper to force them to recite the Pledge Of Allegiance.

The St. Louis Park City Council realized this, so they dropped the Pledge of Allegiance at the open of city council meetings.      That was a solid libertarian solution.   

They never said that the Pledge of Allegiance can never be spoken in chambers - they only dropped the recitation as part of the agenda.

Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

City Councils are after all governments under the Constitution and hopefully do give allegiance to that form of government.

ah . . . I think I see your misunderstanding here.   You think only the council members are performing the Pledge Of Allegiance. 

That wasn't the case.      EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE was compelled to stand, place hand over heart, and recite the Pledge.

They reasoned that, since not everyone in attendance of the council meeting was a US citizen, then it would be inappropriate to compel the immigrants to Pledge Allegiance to the US (which they presumably do NOT).

That would be forcing them to lie.
  
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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #7 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:55pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:15am:
Of course there isn't, but if there illegal immigrants in attendance, it would be improper to force them to recite the Pledge Of Allegiance.

Nobody was forcing anybody to recite the Pledge.
  

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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #8 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:58pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:15am:
They never said that the Pledge of Allegiance can never be spoken in chambers - they only dropped the recitation as part of the agenda.

ah . . . I think I see your misunderstanding here.   You think only the council members are performing the Pledge Of Allegiance. 

That wasn't the case.      EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE was compelled to stand, place hand over heart, and recite the Pledge.

And if anyone remained seated, they would be goose stepped out by the Bailiff? Really? Is there evidence of that?

I would have challenged that back in the '70s if other people hadn't done it first.


  

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Re: Minnesota City Bans Pledge Of Allegiance - Says May Be Offensive
Reply #9 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 4:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
And if anyone remained seated, they would be goose stepped out by the Bailiff? Really? Is there evidence of that?

I would have challenged that back in the '70s if other people hadn't done it first.
I doubt that anybody would be "goose stepped out by the Bailiff".

Two points are;

1) it would make citizens of other countries uneasy during the Pledge Of Allegiance ceremony.

2) The function and effectiveness of City Council is not diminished by omitting the Pledge Of Allegiance ceremony.

It's the logical (and libertarian) solution.
  
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