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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) No licenses for no nothing! (Read 859 times)
Jeff
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #10 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:34am
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Here's one negative effect of occupational licensing:

https://reason.com/2019/08/01/occupational-licensing-is-keeping-americans-stuck-...

Actually, it has negative effects on our entire economy.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #11 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:40am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 7:34am:
Here's one negative effect of occupational licensing:

https://reason.com/2019/08/01/occupational-licensing-is-keeping-americans-stuck-...

Actually, it has negative effects on our entire economy.


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People who insist on official assurances that their barber isn't lethally incompetent might take heart from a Brookings proposal that voluntary certification of professional skills could replace licensing. Those who want to see a piece of paper could go to certified providers. The rest of us could take our chances with businesses we trust through experience and reputation.


I agree with voluntary certification. It's not likely to happen because the big bucks are made in the licensing industry because:

1) It's not voluntary. Everyone has to do it. They can charge the maximum the barber can pay.
2) It's uniform. When competition springs up, and you have ten different kids of certifications, it'll make them all worthless because no one will know what's what. In fact, the first thing competition will do is eliminate competency and produce cheap alternatives that either look pretty or are designed to look like the ones that actually test competency.

Seriously though, before barbers were licensed, has a barber ever killed or even hurt anyone?

Opposition: Make me look more like a Human.
Barber: Uhm... okay. Whatever you say I guess. I guess that's what these scissors are for. I ain't never been told otherwise by no certification board, and I won this job last night at the poker table, so...
Opposition: Haircut! I meant I wanted a different haircut!

I... I just don't think that would happen.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #12 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:48am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:40am:
When competition springs up, and you have ten different kids of certifications, it'll make them all worthless because no one will know what's what.
Sort of like having different states with different standards for certification, and no one knows what's what?

Anyway, not even a certified barber could make you look much like a human... Grin

How do you test the competency of a hairdresser or a beautician?

Is a plumber who gets a license from book learning more competent that one who learns the trade as a plumbers helper?

Is it possible to become a licensed aircraft mechanic without knowing "righty tighty, lefty loosey"? (The answer to that is, yes. Shocked)
  

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ahhell
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #13 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:56am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 1st, 2019 at 10:44am:
No, they are not dude, they are all government agencies.  Where are you getting licensed? Which state?

Do you want to sell food?  Which city?  Which county?

You want a guy with certificates then go to him. 

The guy that fixes my car is awesome and he isn't certified or licensed.  He works from home and I pay him cash and have introduced many customers to him over the years.
I'm a licensed engineer in 4 states. The testing and experience requirements are all run through an organization called the NCEES.  The states file paperwork and issue the license but the bits that actually have any meaning are done by an NGO.  This process is similar for lawyers via the bar associations.

It was a mistake for me to say "all".  I'm willing to bet the less important the license the less input from professional organizations is involved. 

Perhaps I should have said, "certifying institutions" are semi-private rather than licensing.  It would be more accurate to say, I am certified as an engineer by the NCEES and licensed by the states.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #14 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 10:04am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
How do you test the competency of a hairdresser or a beautician?


By going to them. Like I said, I don't think I'm going to be maimed. I've had expensive, uneven haircuts though. Oh well. I just don't go back.

Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
Is a plumber who gets a license from book learning more competent that one who learns the trade as a plumbers helper?

Is it possible to become a licensed aircraft mechanic without knowing "righty tighty, lefty loosey"? (The answer to that is, yes. Shocked)


I think the reason people feel licensing is necessary is that (I imagine) in the case of an aircraft mechanic, someone could die because of a mistake.

Well, people do die because of mistakes. I remember reading that the Challenger fell apart because of one washer or o-ring or something.

Licensing is a way to appease peoples' emotions without addressing the real issue and the uncomfortable question:

Do you want people to be punished when their honest mistakes cause death?

Acting like you can preclude deadly mistakes allows people to gloss over this issue.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #15 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 3:43pm
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ahhell wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 9:56am:
I'm a licensed engineer in 4 states. The testing and experience requirements are all run through an organization called the NCEES.

There are many similar professional organizations...

You're saying your license is accepted in those states, or your certification by NCEES made it easy to get a separate license in each state?

Who says you need to be licensed? If I think you're a good surveyor, I'll hire you.
  

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ahhell
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #16 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:36pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 3:43pm:
There are many similar professional organizations...

You're saying your license is accepted in those states, or your certification by NCEES made it easy to get a separate license in each state?

Who says you need to be licensed? If I think you're a good surveyor, I'll hire you.

The tests are written and administered by the NCEES.  They maintain my record that I then submit to the state licensing bureaucracies.

That's fine and good, but in most states it would be illegal for that guy to call himself a surveyor unless he had a license. 

That says nothing about whether it should be illegal.  I'm probably ok with get replacing those laws with laws that say something akin to its illegals to say you are a certified engineer unless you've been certified as such by a professional organization.
  
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Jeff
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #17 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:41pm
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ahhell wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:36pm:
That's fine and good, but in most states it would be illegal for that guy to call himself a surveyor unless he had a license. 
Right, no matter if he's the best surveyor ever in the history of the world...

In many states, you are a criminal if you do a surveyor's job without being licensed.
  

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Jeff
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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #18 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:47pm
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ahhell wrote on Aug 2nd, 2019 at 4:36pm:
I'm probably ok with get replacing those laws with laws that say something akin to its illegals to say you are a certified engineer unless you've been certified as such by a professional organization. 
The rules of free speech say you can call yourself a fire-breathing Dragon if you want to.

How many of these professional organizations have become self serving bureaucracies?
  

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Re: No licenses for no nothing!
Reply #19 - Aug 2nd, 2019 at 5:23pm
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dupl.  - sorry.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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