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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . . (Read 859 times)
yamcha
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #40 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 5:04am
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 4th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
More gun control measures don't work.

When a madman is bent on killing large numbers of random people in crowded areas, he will do it.


You can leave a loaded and cocked gun in a busy shopping mall for 20 years and nothing will happen if no one picks it up.

Guns make killing easier not really because of their convenience but because of the distance that they can kill at.  You probably could kill a lot more people if you were to drive an SUV through a dense crowd but then you have to see their faces and feel the crunch of their bodies.

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

As, you know, Chief, I seriously interpret this as at least having the right to own or create whatever technology the military possesses.   How can a militia be well regulated if they can't have at least the same technology?

We all know that the first thing a tyrannical government or dictatorship does is take away people's right to bear arms.  Now, don't you think the same thing has basically happened here in America considering that technology is way past just muskets and cannons?

It can be argued that Americans will not kill their own but this is less true as the nation gets more divided culturally.  Back in WW2, young men knew exactly why they went to war and knew exactly who and what they were protecting.  This is not the case anymore.

For example, if I was still eligible to be drafted I would never go.  Why would I risk my life to protect the lives of these people?

  
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Jeff
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #41 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 6:57am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 5:04am:
You can leave a loaded and cocked gun in a busy shopping mall for 20 years and nothing will happen if no one picks it up.

Guns make killing easier not really because of their convenience but because of the distance that they can kill at.  You probably could kill a lot more people if you were to drive an SUV through a dense crowd but then you have to see their faces and feel the crunch of their bodies.

That's been done. Bombs work too.

Most murders are committed at close range with handguns, knives and fists. Sometimes blunt instruments.

See all the red flags in the photo you posted? That's the official color of international communism... Those are the people you want to be armed right?
  

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #42 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 7:04am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 5:04am:
 How can a militia be well regulated if they can't have at least the same technology?

It's not technology that does the regulating, it's laws and people. A "well regulated militia" is one that is trained and can be expected to show up for duty when called up to serve a need.

The terminology used in the Constitution regarding militias was a direct result of the pitifully badly prepared and armed "militias" that existed in the new states. They were pretty much useless in fighting the Revolutionary War.

Anyway, the right to self-defense is a natural right, which means your right to own "technology" capable of protecting yourself is also a natural right.

The right to keep and bear arms is recognized in the Constitution, not created by it.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #43 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 7:06am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 5:04am:
It can be argued that Americans will not kill their own but this is less true as the nation gets more divided culturally.  Back in WW2, young men knew exactly why they went to war and knew exactly who and what they were protecting. 
People haven't thought that since Kent State.

Most of the people who served in WWII were drafted.
  

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #44 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 8:02am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 7th, 2019 at 6:51pm:
This is sort of pertinent to the current discussion about guns:

https://reason.com/2019/08/07/gun-control-cases-to-watch-at-the-supreme-court/?u...

From the article:

"Remington wants the Supreme Court to give that ruling a second look. "Because all states have analogous unfair trade practices laws," Remington argues in its petition, "the decision below threatens to unleash a flood of lawsuits nationwide that would subject lawful business practices to crippling litigation burdens." The Supreme Court "must intervene now," Remington maintains, to "correct the Connecticut Supreme Court's misreading of the PLCAA, and prevent a renewed wave of lawsuits of precisely the kind Congress sought to preempt."



That case is more about our whole absurd tort system.  Under our current system, anyone can sue anyone on any grounds, no matter how absurd.  To be successful, one only need shop around for a judge who is biased enough to accept your case in an area with enough low-IQ types to pick a jury from.

You didn't post nearly enough information from your article, though I guess its a step up from when you just post a link and wait for your cookie.  The case is about being allowed to sue gun manufacturers because someone shot your kid in spite of a 2005 federal law banning exactly those kinds of suits. 

Putting aside the question of why congress chose to protect only one class of manufacturer, the real question is whether congress can ban certain types of lawsuits regardless of how a judge feels about the merits.  Since it will be judges deciding the case, the conclusion is foregone, I would say . . .


  
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Jeff
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #45 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 8:25am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 8:02am:
That case is more about our whole absurd tort system.  Under our current system, anyone can sue anyone on any grounds, no matter how absurd.  To be successful, one only need shop around for a judge who is biased enough to accept your case in an area with enough low-IQ types to pick a jury from.

You didn't post nearly enough information from your article, though I guess its a step up from when you just post a link and wait for your cookie.  The case is about being allowed to sue gun manufacturers because someone shot your kid in spite of a 2005 federal law banning exactly those kinds of suits. 

Putting aside the question of why congress chose to protect only one class of manufacturer, the real question is whether congress can ban certain types of lawsuits regardless of how a judge feels about the merits.  Since it will be judges deciding the case, the conclusion is foregone, I would say . . .


Congress passed the law specifically because tort law was being used to harass lawful businesses in order to drive them out of business, using the absurd premise that you are responsible for how someone uses something you've sold to them.

You're correct that tort law is being abused by giving standing to people who haven't actually been harmed by the people they are suing. (Edit: Hey, I keep getting solicitations from lawyers wanting to know if I ever used RoundUp and might want to claim that all my ailments were caused by using it.)

You are also correct that judges are at fault.

What's your solution? Get rid of laws and courts and judges?

Involving Congress would be unconstitutional unless Congress acted to remove jurisdiction of the courts from a particular issue, which they sort of did by passing a law that protected lawful businesses from harassing lawsuits. Perhaps they needed to be more clear?

It's a tricky proposition, who should decide if a complaint has merit or not... I say judges, even though there are some bad judges.

Loser pays would help.
  

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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #46 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 10:18am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 8:02am:
That case is more about our whole absurd tort system.  Under our current system, anyone can sue anyone on any grounds, no matter how absurd.  To be successful, one only need shop around for a judge who is biased enough to accept your case in an area with enough low-IQ types to pick a jury from.


I made the case before this incident that tort law was terrible, and it's not just that it's corrupt. Under tort law, you can punish someone for doing something that isn't illegal, which means anyone can be punished for anything at any time, regardless of law.

Once a tort is established - once someone sues and wins - that act that was sued against is now effectively illegal anyway, only no laws had to be passed or signed. People worry about judges legislating from the bench but they ignore an entire system that's set up for them to do it.

I'd like to live in a world where, to be punished for doing something, that thing has to be illegal. And people just deal with it if somebody's tree drops leaves in their yard or if they slip on a wet floor.

I was ridiculed for posting absurd nonsense, as always. So I now believe tort law is right and incredibly libertarian. Don't like something I'm doing? Sue me and make me stop.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #47 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 11:32am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 5:04am:
As, you know, Chief, I seriously interpret this as at least having the right to own or create whatever technology the military possesses.   How can a militia be well regulated if they can't have at least the same technology?

We all know that the first thing a tyrannical government or dictatorship does is take away people's right to bear arms.

Yes, It's quite clear that the founding fathers intended for citizens to have the same (or equivalent) weapons as the standing Army did.

But idiot gun-grabbers say that civilians can only have muzzle-loaded flintlock muskets.
  
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #48 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 12:20pm
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SkyChief wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 11:32am:
Yes, It's quite clear that the founding fathers intended for citizens to have the same (or equivalent) weapons as the standing Army did.

But idiot gun-grabbers say that civilians can only have muzzle-loaded flintlock muskets.


Yeah, I think it is very clear considering the Constitution and Bill of Rights was written after we defeated the British who were no longer a threat.  It defines our power to revolt again, right?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why Does the U.S. Have So Many Mass Shootings, When no Other . . .
Reply #49 - Aug 8th, 2019 at 12:32pm
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 12:20pm:
Yeah, I think it is very clear considering the Constitution and Bill of Rights was written after we defeated the British who were no longer a threat.  It defines our power to revolt again, right?

It certainly does.

Thomas Jefferson made this crystal clear:

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?  Let them take arms!” - Thomas Jefferson

And JFK alluded to it:

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
  
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