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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Zero-Sum Game? (Read 614 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 10:28am
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Is land on Earth a limited resource?

Yes, you can make islands, seastead, build huge high rises, but after all that is done, is land limited?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Biq Man
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 5:58pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 7th, 2019 at 10:06pm:
I agree with this entirely.

Again, that's why I said if. If resources are scarce, those with the greatest relative success will be the ones to gain access to them.

That would make it a zero-sum game, right?


Hm.

I don't know about that.   Well, maybe.  It would have to be away from  the Sun.  Maybe on a space ark that loses its guidance system and has a limited amount of supplies and power.  But even then, as the power runs out, it becomes a negative sum game, right?


  
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SkyChief
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #12 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 6:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 10:28am:
Is land on Earth a limited resource?

Not only is it limited, it will become smaller as Global Warming melts glaciers & icecaps and causes sea levels to rise.

Half of France will be under water.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #13 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 9:03pm
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Here's another question about land.

M-class planets in my universe are not infinite. There are plenty... for now.

The United Federation of Planets allows its members to settle on uninhabited planets.

There are also planets with cavemen. The Federation leaves them and their planets alone. "How generous of them," I think to myself sarcastically.

What happens when those cavemen develop warp drive and want to settle planets only to find they are all taken already? Their nearest fifty M-class worlds? Filled with Humans! Sorry, we got there first. Tough luck.

Is the Federation doing wrong here?

I could give real-world examples but I don't want people to get all offended and indignant.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #14 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:42am
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Unless they get free membership in the Federation, they would be invading Federation Territory.  They can also apply for membership with the Romulan Empire who might also have some class M planets for them.  What does it matter once you have warp drive anyways? Fuking silly example deserves a silly answer!

Now let's talk about America and reality.  Generations of people here have worked hard to be where they are and have what they have.   They have built a great place with great wealth and happiness.  They have a right to protect this in any way they want.  Do you think that by opening up the border that persons of good character are going to come and add to the goodness here?  Of course not.  The only reason they come is for freebies and if we stopped handing out freebies then they would stop coming.

Is handing out freebies part of the free-market plan?

Why do you think the Naturalization Act of 1790 specifically says "only free White persons of good character"?  The founders could already see the rapists and murders coming.

Oppo, you scream about not having the right to own tigers but you can't even afford the cost of the $3000 a month to feed them nor can you afford the minimum 5 acres by law to hold those cats.

Why not speak realistically instead of hypothesizing and theorizing?  Is it worthy to support moralistic policies such as Communism and NAF that have idealisms that have no basis in reality?

You, yourself, admitted that they aren't realistic but are still the most moral way.  Aren't you supposed to be a genius?  Can you not come up with a realistic policy that fits your morals instead of wishing that death to mankind comes soon and so quickly that mankind will not have time to destroy natures potential for moral evolution?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #15 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 11:54am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:42am:
Unless they get free membership in the Federation, they would be invading Federation Territory.  They can also apply for membership with the Romulan Empire who might also have some class M planets for them.  What does it matter once you have warp drive anyways? Fuking silly example deserves a silly answer!


So you think the Lockean Proviso is wrong.

yamcha wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:42am:
Now let's talk about America and reality.  Generations of people here have worked hard to be where they are and have what they have.   They have built a great place with great wealth and happiness.  They have a right to protect this in any way they want.  Do you think that by opening up the border that persons of good character are going to come and add to the goodness here?  Of course not.  The only reason they come is for freebies and if we stopped handing out freebies then they would stop coming.


Then it seems to me you should work against the handouts, not the open borders, since working against the former is libertarian and working against the latter is not.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #16 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 12:26pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 11:54am:
So you think the Lockean Proviso is wrong. 



No more wrong than the Prime Directive.
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Then it seems to me you should work against the handouts, not the open borders, since working against the former is libertarian and working against the latter is not.


Closed borders will stop handouts.

By, the way, please address what I asked you about  IQ.


  
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The Opposition
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #17 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:48pm
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yamcha wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:42am:
Can you not come up with a realistic policy that fits your morals


Not without sacrificing freedom.

Such a realistic policy as you describe would entail making the Expected Value of crime negative, and no one wants that.

Pick any two of the following:

1. Sustainable; Realistic
2. Makes Everyone Happy
3. Respects Rights; Preserves Freedom

If you don't pick 2, you've lost before you started.

Your point is answered, now please actually give a thoughtful response as to my claiming land question.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #18 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:37pm
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I pick all three.   There is no need to make anyone happy, especially not illegals.  Doesn't mean they can't pursue it.  All you need is the majority vote.  So what would you suggest?

Ask your question about land again, please.  Or do you mean the Star trek Federation question?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Zero-Sum Game?
Reply #19 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 11:08pm
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yamcha wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
I pick all three.   There is no need to make anyone happy, especially not illegals.


So you pick 1 and 3. You lose. Your government goes under because some other idiot promises the people they will be happy and they overthrow you.

yamcha wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
Ask your question about land again, please.  Or do you mean the Star trek Federation question?


Yes, that's the question. I asked it in that way because people here get very prickly and offended if anyone uses real-world examples.

Is it really just too bad for the cavemen, since nothing is left when they get warp and all the planets closest to them are taken already?

Would you be just peachy if my species colonised Mars just by virtue of being a few hundred years ahead of you technologically, and then didn't let Humans come there?

It's fundamentally a question about claiming land.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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