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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (Read 2530 times)
yamcha
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #20 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 11:31am
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technically, anything that causes discomfort is aggression.  Micro-discomfort = micro-aggression.  Talking is aggression these days too that is why there are trigger warning and safe spaces.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #21 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
So? It wasn't aggression. More people die of old age than Nazis kill too. The difference is, the latter is aggression.

They have to have boom and bust cycles so they can make money. Lending is not as profitable without controlled busts where most people will default, and that way the banks can gain control of property.

You and Bob are essentially complaining about the free market.


I'm complaining about the *lack* of free market, ie elite-controlled money and debt.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #22 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 9:32pm:
Bob is the poster above you. And controlling the dollar supply is not force. The Federal Reserve is a private business.


Ha, ha, if you count getting six figures of people killed by supplying money and arms to start a war in in Syria as non-aggression.

Imperial power always has, as its highest and most central objective, control of the world's monetary reserve system.
  
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BobK71
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #23 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:43pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 10:39pm:
I don't really care. If someone thinks they've been defrauded they can sue and a court can decide that.

The dollar is a product of the Federal Reserve, a private business. So of course they're going to control it to make as much money as possible. It is right that they should, and the boom and bust cycle is how they go about it. If people starve as collateral damage, oh well. People die. If it's not aggression it doesn't need to be punished.


It doesn't matter what form central banks take.  Some are private and some public.  They are all, in reality, institutions using public power to manipulate markets to benefit the top politicians and bankers at the expense of the economy as a whole.

Even entities like Facebook and Google can't be considered truly private in this context.  Big companies do 'favors' for governments in exchange for being allowed by regulators, etc. to succeed in the 'private markets.'  That's how things really work -- in effect, they are acting as public utilities in certain ways, while being disguised as private businesses.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #24 - Aug 9th, 2019 at 9:09pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:43pm:
It doesn't matter what form central banks take.  Some are private and some public.  They are all, in reality, institutions using public power to manipulate markets to benefit the top politicians and bankers at the expense of the economy as a whole.


You need to get your head out of tyrannical concepts. The economy doesn't belong to anyone. It's there to be exploited by whosoever can best exploit it. If some people are harmed because of the actions of others, that's just too bad.

BobK71 wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 2:43pm:
Even entities like Facebook and Google can't be considered truly private in this context.  Big companies do 'favors' for governments in exchange for being allowed by regulators, etc. to succeed in the 'private markets.'  That's how things really work -- in effect, they are acting as public utilities in certain ways, while being disguised as private businesses.


Yes, they get government favours. They are still private businesses. I used to think like you until I got intellectually slammed into the ground for my stupid, unlibertarian beliefs. It took quite a few times but I have learned better.

I dare you to try to sell that to one of the heavy hitters here like Jeff or Kaz. I dare you.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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BobK71
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #25 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 9:09pm:
You need to get your head out of tyrannical concepts. The economy doesn't belong to anyone. It's there to be exploited by whosoever can best exploit it. If some people are harmed because of the actions of others, that's just too bad.


Yes, they get government favours. They are still private businesses. I used to think like you until I got intellectually slammed into the ground for my stupid, unlibertarian beliefs. It took quite a few times but I have learned better.

I dare you to try to sell that to one of the heavy hitters here like Jeff or Kaz. I dare you.


Your idea that the economy 'is there to be exploited' and that such exploitation is moral is fine if we consider a specific kind of law-of-the-jungle OK.  I.e. that it's OK to have a system that facilitates the use of public power to manipulate markets for private gain at the expense of the public.  However you think of this idea, it's not libertarian.

Whichever type of libertarian you are, you're not in favor of having rules and systems that make corruption easy.

FWIW, I don't have the same fear of Jeff and Kaz as you do.  On this particular issue I happen to be on the same page as virtually everyone on this board (and indeed everyone in general,) if we don't quite see eye-to-eye as to exactly how money and finance work.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #26 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 9:25pm
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BobK71 wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
Your idea that the economy 'is there to be exploited' and that such exploitation is moral is fine if we consider a specific kind of law-of-the-jungle OK.  I.e. that it's OK to have a system that facilitates the use of public power to manipulate markets for private gain at the expense of the public.  However you think of this idea, it's not libertarian.


Whenever I have a complaint, it doesn't matter how much it makes the world terrible, like all speech being controlled by huge crony corporations, I get slammed because the thing I'm complaining about is fine under the NAP. It doesn't matter how much crony money Google gets. It. is. a. private. business.

So why does the same exact argument that defeats me cleanly not work on you?

Oh, right. Libertarians don't believe in fairness. So principles only apply when they're convenient for libertarians.

BobK71 wrote on Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
I happen to be on the same page as virtually everyone on this board (and indeed everyone in general,) if we don't quite see eye-to-eye as to exactly how money and finance work.


Actually you get made fun of for the conspiracy theory stuff you say about elites.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #27 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 7:03am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 9th, 2019 at 11:31am:
technically, anything that causes discomfort is aggression.  Micro-discomfort = micro-aggression.  Talking is aggression these days too that is why there are trigger warning and safe spaces.
All your talk about nigs and spics and jews and final solutions makes me extremely uncomfortable...

Good thing this forum isn't a safe space, or you wouldn't be allowed to post here!
  

"Free hate speech"
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Jeff
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #28 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 7:05am
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Jacob wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 10:07am:
Basically everything Hoover and FDR did expanded the Great Depression.
And Congress. And the Fed.

Not only deepened it, but prolonged it.

I think Trump plans to outdo them. Cry
  

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Jeff
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Re: Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
Reply #29 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 7:06am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 8th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Not according to Milton Friedman:

"Jewish financiers, Paul Warburg, Bernard Baruch, Eugene Meyers, and other 'Fed' bankers intentionally triggered the Great Depression... which killed at least three million... more Americans died from Fed instigated famine and related "malnutrition" and disease causes, than were killed by Hitler's Nazi armies and Japan's genocidal imperial armies... in all of World War II put together."

What crap.
  

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