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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing (Read 1044 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #20 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 5:52pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 4:01pm:
This is Gresham's Law.  When you have both real money and fiat money in circulation at the same time, people will hold on to the real money, and instead use the fiat money to pay for goods and services.

More simply stated:   "bad money drives out good".

Runaway federal spending is now driving monetary policy - a classic recipe for disaster.

The Fed is now printing money to monetize massive federal deficits caused by unchecked spending.

Injecting all this "helicopter money" causes inflation, which in turn diminishes the purchasing power of the dollars we now have in our wallets and banks.

This is a precursor to hyperinflation.  When hyperinflation happens, economies collapse.

It's a real high-wire act the Fed is doing.   Jeez, I sure wish they had a safety net below them.   Only they don't.   Undecided


Maybe you could explain to me why what I said is wrong, then.

Jeff doesn't seem to want to.

Keep in mind that I didn't call it counterfeiting. I just said it was like counterfeiting.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #21 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:02pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 5:52pm:
Maybe you could explain to me why what I said is wrong, then.

Jeff doesn't seem to want to.

Keep in mind that I didn't call it counterfeiting. I just said it was like counterfeiting.


Yes, it has the exact same affect on the holders of currency as counterfeiting.  More nominal dollars are created, but no economic value is created.  So the purchasing power of the existing dollars is diluted.

Printing money is government stealing from the American people, the Fed should be shut down.  The only real difference is that the government can print far more money than can practically be counterfeited and they can get away with it until the economy collapses because of it
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #22 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:06pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 4:01pm:
This is Gresham's Law.  When you have both real money and fiat money in circulation at the same time, people will hold on to the real money, and instead use the fiat money to pay for goods and services


Opposition isn't talking about two different currencies.  There is only one currency that is being diluted by the US government.  The solution is the gold standard.  Which is why the government hates it so much.  It stops them from stealing from their people.

That's a big reason why cryptocurrencies are doing so well
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #23 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:57pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:02pm:
Printing money is government [effectively] stealing from the American people,


I cannot count the number of times this added bit has been of absolute relevance to libertarians.

Yes, the act has exactly the same effect as stealing. It is done for no other purpose than to have that effect.

But libertarians love their legalism. And it's not technically theft. So I have no idea what libertarians will say.

For example, libertarians love to say that when the entire world is privately owned (as it should be) and conservative speech is stamped out, and business owners tell their employees no voting for conservatives, and conservatives are banned from everywhere, targeted and defamed and slandered by the media, this is perfectly fine because that's just private ownership.

It has the exact same effect as a ban on conservative speech, but the exact same effect does not matter. It's the technicality of the act that matters, right?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #24 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 8:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:57pm:
I cannot count the number of times this added bit has been of absolute relevance to libertarians.

Yes, the act has exactly the same effect as stealing. It is done for no other purpose than to have that effect.

But libertarians love their legalism. And it's not technically theft. So I have no idea what libertarians will say.

For example, libertarians love to say that when the entire world is privately owned (as it should be) and conservative speech is stamped out, and business owners tell their employees no voting for conservatives, and conservatives are banned from everywhere, targeted and defamed and slandered by the media, this is perfectly fine because that's just private ownership.

It has the exact same effect as a ban on conservative speech, but the exact same effect does not matter. It's the technicality of the act that matters, right?


Thanks for that completely meaningless clarification, Jeff
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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yamcha
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #25 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 8:12pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:06pm:
Opposition isn't talking about two different currencies.  There is only one currency that is being diluted by the US government.  The solution is the gold standard.  Which is why the government hates it so much.  It stops them from stealing from their people.

That's a big reason why cryptocurrencies are doing so well


I want to make 2 points here:

1.  Not only should we go back to the Gold Standard but also Full Reserve Banking.

2. I do not and have never met anyone who understands cryptocurrency i.e. Bitcoin.  I have read many internet articles and a book or two on Bitcoin.  I have also talked to very intelligent friends who have degrees in finance and are active traders who also are unable to explain it.

Can anyone here clearly tell me how it works and exactly what its value is based on and how that is calculated?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #26 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 10:34pm
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yamcha wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 8:12pm:
  Not only should we go back to the Gold Standard but also Full Reserve Banking.
We cannot go back to the Gold Standard without a complete reset of the banking system.  There isn't enough above-ground gold on the planet to back all of the US dollars in circulation.

We cannot go back to Full-Reserve banking without a complete reset of the banking system.

interesting fact:

The United States currently has $125 Trillion in unfunded liabilities.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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yamcha
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #27 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 10:45pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 10:34pm:
We cannot go back to the Gold Standard without a complete reset of the banking system.  There isn't enough above-ground gold on the planet to back all of the US dollars in circulation.

We cannot go back to Full-Reserve banking without a complete reset of the banking system.

interesting fact:

The United States currently has $125 Trillion in unfunded liabilities.


Absolutely it will take a full reset and the dollar along with perhaps the world's other currencies will have to go through big changes in denominations in order to match the amount of above-ground gold we have.

The price of gold will go up dramatically too.

I also am in favor of bombing the Federal Reserve out of existence.

A reset is exactly what we need, Chief.

p.s. I detest electronic money.

p.s.s. We have become such fukken stupid robots.  One time I paid a few hundred in cash for something at Macy's and the girls asked me for ID!
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #28 - Oct 21st, 2019 at 12:44am
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yamcha wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 8:12pm:
Can anyone here clearly tell me how it works and exactly what its value is based on and how that is calculated?


I can give you the short version. And no, I don't know how exactly they prevent people from counterfeiting bitcoins. I know that everyone with bitcoins has a wallet and records of every transaction are kept.

Bitcoins come into existence when computers mine them. Computers with lots of processing power solve the equations the inventor of bitcoins (or his computer) came up with. When a significant part is solved, the bitcoin computer gives out bitcoins to the solving computer.

There are many types of bitcoins, all independent of one another. I have some that are called Etherium.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: Deficit Spending, Debt & Printing
Reply #29 - Oct 21st, 2019 at 1:01am
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Yeah, I know all about that and the mining stuff.  Two years ago, I was even thinking about getting several core i9 32 gig computers and just leave them on 24/7.

But what is cryptocurrency based on?  What is it backed by?  Even though it is virtual, how is it real?
  
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