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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tommy the Idiot (Read 861 times)
Jeff
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #20 - Oct 8th, 2019 at 3:09pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 12:41pm:
I understand that the 16th Amendment gave Congress power to tax.

It did not. It simply removed the impediment to taxing incomes without apportionment that was created by the horribly reasoned Pollock decision, a decision that has since been overturned piecemeal, rendering the 16th Amendment superfluous.

Do I really need to cite the grant of taxing power to you from the original Constitution?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #21 - Oct 8th, 2019 at 7:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 3:09pm:
It did not. It simply removed the impediment to taxing incomes without apportionment that was created by the horribly reasoned Pollock decision, a decision that has since been overturned piecemeal, rendering the 16th Amendment superfluous.

Do I really need to cite the grant of taxing power to you from the original Constitution?
Don't bother.  I'm not interested in the rationality for the 16th Amendment - not interested in Pollock.

Taxation by coercion is aggression, and aggression is wrong.  There is no reason for taxation by coercion in a civilized society.

To a libertarian, this is obvious.

"When more of the people's sustenance is exacted through the form of taxation than is necessary to meet the just obligations of government and expenses of its economical administration, such exaction becomes ruthless extortion and a violation of the fundamental principles of free government." - Grover Cleveland
  
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Jeff
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #22 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:53am
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
There is no reason for taxation by coercion in a civilized society.

To a libertarian, this is obvious.

"When more of the people's sustenance is exacted through the form of taxation than is necessary to meet the just obligations of government and expenses of its economical administration, such exaction becomes ruthless extortion and a violation of the fundamental principles of free government." - Grover Cleveland
Good quote from Cleveland, who obviously agrees with me.

All taxation involves coercion Chief. If people were will to donate money to the treasury, it wouldn't have to, but they aren't.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #23 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:04am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:53am:
All taxation involves coercion Chief. If people were will to donate money to the treasury, it wouldn't have to, but they aren't.
Nope.

Tariffs do not involve coercion.   Sales Tax does not involve coercion.

Coercion is when the IRS sends armed agents to arrest you for evasion of Income Taxes. 

Now, THAT'S coercion.   

"Every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor - we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection of money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights." -Libertarian Party
  
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Jeff
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #24 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:04am:
Nope.

Tariffs do not involve coercion.   Sales Tax does not involve coercion.

Nobody pays them willingly. It adds a cost to the goods they are importing, which costs them money.

I'm sure you don't think people volunteer to pay tariffs?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #25 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 4:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm:
Nobody pays them willingly. It adds a cost to the goods they are importing, which costs them money.

I'm sure you don't think people volunteer to pay tariffs?
Willingness to pay something is irrelevant.  The point is, with tariffs and sales tax, there is no coercion.

With Income Tax, there IS.

Those IRS Agents that come to your home to arrest you for not paying taxes WILL BE ARMED.    Count on it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #26 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 4:14pm:
Willingness to pay something is irrelevant.  The point is, with tariffs and sales tax, there is no coercion.

Right, if you are unwilling to pay the tariff on goods you've been importing, you can just buy them locally at a higher price, and maybe go out of business because your profit margin goes away.

At the least, you will raise the price of your product, which everyone will "willingly" pay more for, because they have no alternative.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #27 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 4:14pm:
Those IRS Agents that come to your home to arrest you for not paying taxes WILL BE ARMED.    Count on it.
They almost never do that Chief, because they don't have to.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #28 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 9:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 9th, 2019 at 6:36pm:
They almost never do that Chief, because they don't have to.
Completely irrelevant.

So thanks for that.   Smiley
  
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kaz
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Re: Tommy the Idiot
Reply #29 - yesterday at 9:26am
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yamcha wrote on Aug 20th, 2019 at 1:05am:
Thomas Jefferson fukked up big time when editing the Declaration of Independence, changed Locke's "life, liberty and property" to the more socially liberal "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

He should have either left it as it was or just added the happiness bullshit somewhere else.  What the hell is the pursuit of happiness anyways?  Fukking undefinable nonsense and therefore eternally disputable and arguable.  Why didn't he just say the pursuit of Teleportation or Time Travel or Invisibility or any of the other unobtainable and dismissable bullshit pursuits?

If he would have left the word PROPERTY then we wouldn't have all this eminent domain crap or property or inheritance tax crap today.

That was the second biggest mistake they made after bringing the Africans here.

And by the way, anyone who does not think to bring Africans here a mistake supports the plucking of people from their land and enslaving them.



I think the way the DOI and Constitution as written are both fine because the Constitution is a legal document and the DOI is a declaration.  the DOI told George this is why we are leaving you.  I'm not sure in that context that "property" made sense since we were allowed to have property.

In the Constitution, which is the law of the land, property made a lot more sense because it was the basis of our legal system and the term pursuit of happiness is more ambiguous.

Had they put "pursuit of happiness" in the Constitution, then I would agree with you.  Of course the left cites the DOI in legal arguments.  That is because they actually are idiots
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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