Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization (Read 2783 times)
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2749
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Aug 22nd, 2019 at 9:48am
Print Post  
What would your preferred solution be?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11747
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2019 at 10:06am
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
What would your preferred solution be?


Based on what I've learned about libertarianism, not all problems have to have a solution. Keep the government out of it. Let private courts take civil suits, but as far as I know, you can't sue people for something that they haven't done yet. Let the polluters ruin the world, then you can sue them.

If you're not bothered by the fact that the bluefin tuna will absolutely go extinct, I don't see why you should consider a mega-version of the same problem (resource collapse) to be an aggression that government must address.

If I take a knife and cut you, it's either aggression or it isn't. No one suggests we measure how many milliliters of blood came out before we come to the (in this case correct) conclusion that it is definitely aggression.

Using a resource completely up is the problem here. In the case of global warming, the resource may be the available space to pollute with carbon dioxide or sulfur or whatever else you've got.

I have never seen a libertarian suggest that killing the last proverbial unicorn is aggression, so I'm forced to assume (until I'm refuted, which I will be) that killing lots of the last of things isn't aggression.

Let the resources all be used up. Then, humanity will have to find another way. You're not entitled to be born into a world that's lush and green or one with plenty of resources.

However, I don't think you'll get the biggest libertarians to provide an answer to this. Libertarians like to dictate truth and preclude hypotheticals. They'll just say, "Well, it's not a problem, so why should we bother about if it was? If pigs laid eggs, would they be called chickens?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy"
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12272
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #2 - Aug 22nd, 2019 at 12:11pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
What would your preferred solution be?

Earth shades.   Cool      Solar Shade Array©

A ring of huge shadow panels which encircle the Earth in geosynchronous orbit.  These panels will block out the sun's radiation.  They can be added or taken away away as needed.   They need to be very large in area, but they don't need to be very thick - just thick enough to maintain rigidity in space - (only a few mils).

The reduction in Solar radiation (visible light) would be unnoticeable from the ground, so agriculture will not be impacted in any way.   

The Solar Shade Array should drop global temperature 2 or 3 degrees.

Icecaps will return, and the fjords of Norway will once again freeze over during the winter months.  Also the severity of storms, hurricanes, and cyclones should diminish.   Smiley

China and Russia will pay for the SSA©, as they are the biggest contributors to Global Warming (greenhouse gases).
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49878
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd, 2019 at 1:29pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
What would your preferred solution be?
Liberty and economic freedom.

Central planning to prevent the earth's climate from changing is foolish on it's face, but certain to fail as central planning is always certain to fail.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2749
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2019 at 2:52pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 1:29pm:
Liberty and economic freedom.

Central planning to prevent the earth's climate from changing is foolish on it's face, but certain to fail as central planning is always certain to fail.

So, how exactly will that work?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49878
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #5 - Aug 22nd, 2019 at 3:02pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 2:52pm:
So, how exactly will that work? 
The way free people in free economies always work, doing the things that make free economies successful.

Face it, the global warming people say it's too late unless China, and Russia, and India, and North Korea, and probably a host of other "developing" (but never getting beyond 'developing) countries drastically cut their carbon emissions right now!

So, if they are correct, the only question is, do you want to live the last years of the Earth as we know it in a free country, or a Democratic Socialist tyranny?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49878
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #6 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 7:18am
Print Post  
What if the Palestinian Authority is a real threat to civilization?

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/pa-president-abbas-millions-of-fighters...

Amazingly enough, our government is still giving them our tax money...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Little Biq Man
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 993
Joined: Mar 17th, 2019
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #7 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 9:12am
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 22nd, 2019 at 9:48am:
What would your preferred solution be?


I give you credit for coming up with an interesting question.  I have nothing against "what ifs" as long as they are within the realm of reality.  Questions about hypotheticals that are not in the realm of possibility are not good bases for discussion.  For example if you questioned the gold standard by saying,

"what if a large lode of gold were found that trippled the available supply?"

that would be a reasonable premise.  If you asked,

"what if it were discovered that gold causes impotence, so no one would want it anymore, would it still be a good standard for money?"

that would not be a reasonable premise, because that is not going to happen.

As to your question, it needs clarification.  If you mean

"suppose global warming is real in that the temperature of the earth will rise over the centuries leading to changes in climate, land use, population of humans and animals and agriculture."

we can debate that.

If you mean,


"what if global warming is reasonably likely to cause an end to human civilization, reducing us to our formal animal or tribal conditions in the next several decades?"

no libertarian need answer that question in order to argue that libertarianism is a viable system.  Because that is not going to happen.

To answer the first version of your question:

If global warming is indeed destined to change the climate in significant ways, the free market will adapt to it.  Farmers will sell land that is no longer arable to people interested in developing it as housing for people forced to move from the coast due to rising seas.  People whose land as once not fertile but now is due to climate change will sell their land to those farmers. 

If food actually does become more expensive, people will have fewer children and possibly even lose weight if such a thing is imaginable in America.

The flooding of New York will be gradual, not sudden as depicted in movies.  Donald Trump VII will build high rise buildings in Kansas in preparation for the need for office space.  In other words, the free market will find the best solution to this problem.

Unless government.

If farmers are not allowed to sell land to developers because of the Preservation of Farmland Act, if developers are not allowed to build new subdivisions because the Endangered Species Act makes new building too expensive to be profitable.  If the government begins rationing food in anticipation of coming shortages while increasing the amount of food stamp payments so the poor can have as many kids as they want, then a collapse is actually possible. 

That collapse would be caused by government, not by freedom.



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11747
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #8 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 1:25pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 24th, 2019 at 9:12am:
If you mean,

"what if global warming is reasonably likely to cause an end to human civilization, reducing us to our formal animal or tribal conditions in the next several decades?"

no libertarian need answer that question in order to argue that libertarianism is a viable system.  Because that is not going to happen.


Brilliant post.

Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 24th, 2019 at 9:12am:
That collapse would be caused by government, not by freedom.


Plus one billion. Absolutely correct.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49878
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Reply #9 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 4:59pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 24th, 2019 at 9:12am:
I give you credit for coming up with an interesting question.
It's a question libertarians have been asking since the big panic was about "Snowball Earth". Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

The same solutions were proposed back then, give control of everything to the government, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!

Edit: Not surprisingly, libertarians have been offering reasonable policy proposals since that time, and still are. Those proposals all involve less government control, not more.

Personally, my favorite "best way to save the Earth" is to get rid of all Communist and Socialist, and Democratic Socialist governments and allow people to be free.

I know that's a fantasy, right? Communism and Democratic Socialism have already won and are here to stay...

I've heard that sentiment on this forum more than once. Angry



  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Suppose global warming is a real threat to Civilization
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy