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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The 4 Tiers Of Justice (Read 1757 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #30 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 12:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:19am:
Nonsense. My local property taxes go to support the fire department too. Do you think the fire department is "government run"?


Are you even serious?

For about a second I thought ‘Maybe it’s different in North Carolina since everyone is everyone’s third cousin twice removed and the like.’ 

But I looked it up:

https://www.raleighnc.gov/safety/content/Fire/Articles/FireRecruitment.html

Notice the “.gov?”

Yes Jeff.  When agencies are tax funded government runs them. Not to mention government trying to run the private sector also.
  

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Jeff
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #31 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 5:14pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
Are you even serious?


Yes.

If you think our fire department is "government controlled", you need to get away from the big "progressive" city university you usually hide out at. Grin Grin Grin
  

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Jeff
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #32 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 5:17pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
Notice that it's the State Government in Raleigh?

Our fire department is not connected with the State. Probably they all too often refer to the State database when looking for new firemen... Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

No, they don't.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #33 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:15pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 5:17pm:
Notice that it's the State Government in Raleigh?

Our fire department is not connected with the State. Probably they all too often refer to the State database when looking for new firemen... Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

No, they don't.


https://www.raleighnc.gov/fire

Again . . . ".gov," means it's government.

Please tell me you're only pretending to be this ignorant, Jeff.


  
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Jeff
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #34 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:38pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:15pm:
https://www.raleighnc.gov/fire

Again . . . ".gov," means it's government.

Please tell me you're only pretending to be this ignorant, Jeff.


Our fire department is self directing.

I suppose you will insist that the Fire Chief is an agent of the government, but he's not, and he's not controlled by bureaucrats in Raleigh. Cheesy
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #35 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:38pm:
Our fire department is self directing.

I suppose you will insist that the Fire Chief is an agent of the government, but he's not, and he's not controlled by bureaucrats in Raleigh. Cheesy


Is he elected or appointed?

Oh, never mind:

Fire Chief John T. McGrath was appointed on February 1, 2006. He is the third chief hired from outside the Raleigh Fire Department. He served 32 years in the Philadelphia, Pa. Fire Department and retired as the Operations Chief.

He attended LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pa.) and received a Bachelor of Science degree in management and accounting. He's a graduate of the Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government's "Senior Executives in State and Local Government" program. He is a graduate of the National Fire Academy's "Executive Fire Officer" program and he is also a graduate of the University of North Carolina's Institute of Government "Municipal Administration" program.

Chief McGrath has been associated with the National Fallen Fire fighters Foundation since 1998 and he has served as the incident commander of the annual Memorial Weekend since 2002.


The City of Raleigh website lists their departments at raleighnc.gov.  And - of course - the fire department is one of them:

MyRaleigh
Departments

    Budget and Management Services
    City Clerk
    City Manager
    City Planning
    Communications
    Development Services
    Engineering Services
    Finance
    Fire
    Housing and Neighborhoods
    Human Resources
    Information Technology
    Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources
    Police
    Public Utilities
    Raleigh-Wake Emergency Communications Center
    Solid Waste Services
    Transportation
    View all departments



https://www.raleighnc.gov/

Jeff, just say you're kidding.  I'll admit that you had me going.  Better that than to have someone so incredibly stupid as to believe that fire departments are not part of government calling himself a libertarian.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #36 - Aug 31st, 2019 at 8:09am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 30th, 2019 at 7:50pm:
Is he elected or appointed?

Oh, never mind:

Fire Chief John T. McGrath was appointed on February 1, 2006. He is the third chief hired from outside the Raleigh Fire Department. He served 32 years in the Philadelphia, Pa. Fire Department and retired as the Operations Chief.

He attended LaSalle University (Philadelphia, Pa.) and received a Bachelor of Science degree in management and accounting. He's a graduate of the Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government's "Senior Executives in State and Local Government" program. He is a graduate of the National Fire Academy's "Executive Fire Officer" program and he is also a graduate of the University of North Carolina's Institute of Government "Municipal Administration" program.

Chief McGrath has been associated with the National Fallen Fire fighters Foundation since 1998 and he has served as the incident commander of the annual Memorial Weekend since 2002.


The City of Raleigh website lists their departments at raleighnc.gov.  And - of course - the fire department is one of them:

MyRaleigh
Departments

    Budget and Management Services
    City Clerk
    City Manager
    City Planning
    Communications
    Development Services
    Engineering Services
    Finance
    Fire
    Housing and Neighborhoods
    Human Resources
    Information Technology
    Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources
    Police
    Public Utilities
    Raleigh-Wake Emergency Communications Center
    Solid Waste Services
    Transportation
    View all departments



https://www.raleighnc.gov/

Jeff, just say you're kidding.  I'll admit that you had me going.  Better that than to have someone so incredibly stupid as to believe that fire departments are not part of government calling himself a libertarian.
Who cares about Raleigh, other than people who think it's a hotbed of "progressivism"? The Fire Chief of every big "progressive" city is probably a political appointee.

That has nothing to do with all the small town fire departments across America that see themselves as public servants protecting the lives and property of the people of their community.

The fire department in my town happens to be a volunteer fire department, funded in part by property taxes, and in part by donations.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #37 - Aug 31st, 2019 at 9:52am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 31st, 2019 at 8:09am:
Who cares about Raleigh, other than people who think it's a hotbed of "progressivism"? The Fire Chief of every big "progressive" city is probably a political appointee.


Yes, and so is the Fire Chief of every big "conservative" city.  The Fire Chief of that town in Israel that they named after your hero Trump will be a political appointee.

Quote:
That has nothing to do with all the small town fire departments across America that see themselves as public servants protecting the lives and property of the people of their community.

The fire department in my town happens to be a volunteer fire department, funded in part by property taxes, and in part by donations.


Yes, and run entirely by government.

If you disagree, name this mythical libertarian town of yours that you keep holding up as the shining example of how "the village" educates children, fights fires and protects property rights, all with taxes, but without interference from government.


  
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Jeff
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #38 - Aug 31st, 2019 at 2:10pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Aug 31st, 2019 at 9:52am:
Yes, and so is the Fire Chief of every big "conservative" city.  The Fire Chief of that town in Israel that they named after your hero Trump will be a political appointee.


Yes, and run entirely by government.


I know, you want all fire departments to be private businesses, right?

The problem is, if I subscribe to one of the local private fire departments, and my neighbors don't, their burning houses might very well set mine on fire.

Will my contracted fire department come out because someone else's house is on fire, or will they tell me to wait until my house catches on fire? Will every private fire department have their own hydrants to hook up to? If a whole neighborhood is on fire, and the various homeowners in the neighborhood have subscribed to half a dozen different fire companies, who will hook up to the hydrant?  Who will keep them from being in each others way? Will they try to determine which houses they shouldn't try to save before they start fighting the fire?

Israel is pretty socialist... Why bring them into it?

Anyway, our fire department is not "run by the government", it's partly funded by the government. It's run by the fire chief and the firemen. Having a government appointed fire chief is probably a bad idea, but I've not yet heard of fire departments determining whose house to save based on politics. The "government" policy for fire departments is for them to put out fires, and, because they are quasi-governmental, they can issue citations and levy fines against people who carelessly start fires. Only an anarchist would complain about them.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: The 4 Tiers Of Justice
Reply #39 - Aug 31st, 2019 at 2:18pm
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Jeff wrote on Aug 31st, 2019 at 2:10pm:
I know, you want all fire departments to be private businesses, right?


Wait, I thought you were arguing that they already are.

WTF?


Quote:
The problem is, if I subscribe to one of the local private fire departments, and my neighbors don't, their burning houses might very well set mine on fire.

Will my contracted fire department come out because someone else's house is on fire, or will they tell me to wait until my house catches on fire?


I guess you would have to read that contract to find out.

Smart people will pay a little extra to make sure that their house will be protected from a fire that starts in their neighbor's house.  The Jeff's of the world will be taken advantage of by flim-flam artists in the private sector just as they are taken advantage of now by flim-flam artists in government.

Quote:
Will every private fire department have their own hydrants to hook up to? If a whole neighborhood is on fire, and the various homeowners in the neighborhood have subscribed to half a dozen different fire companies, who will hook up to the hydrant?  Who will keep them from being in each others way? Will they try to determine which houses they shouldn't try to save before they start fighting the fire?



When multiple houses are on fire, the firefighters have to prioritize.  At least in a private system, they won't automatically prioritize the Mayor's house while letting yours burn (unless you hired a scam fire department, in which case what's the difference?)

Quote:
Israel is pretty socialist... Why bring them into it?


You have some other countries in mind besides your mythical town in which the Fire Department isn't run by government?

  
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