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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource (Read 690 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #10 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 7:22am
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I guess the pyramid has been tossed under the bus?
  

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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #11 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 7:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Aug 31st, 2019 at 4:16pm:
This is why it's always a fight: It's a fight over a resource. There is a limited amount of risk you can impose on the populace before it will collectively agree, alright, no more, I don't feel safe. Freedom really isn't free - it is a resource and it can definitely be expended.

What was it Ben Franklin said? "Those who value safety over Liberty will soon have neither." Something like that anyway...

Ah, here it is-

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #12 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 8:35am
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Jeff wrote on Aug 31st, 2019 at 5:48pm:
Which tells you right off the pyramid means little or nothing?




No, Jeff.  It does not tell me that "raht Awf."

What it tells me is that Maslow's Pyramid is a way for highly educated and unusually intelligent people (like LBM) to explain a complicated concept in simplified form to the less educated and less intelligent (like Jeff).  Perhaps they should explain that the pyramid - like anything else - won't always apply to every single situation.

But in education, it should help the Jeffs of the world realize why spending stolen tax dollars on public schools while not feeding the students is a waste of money, because hungry kids cannot learn. 

Amazing that people who insist on taxing people until they squeal to pay for football stadiums, band equipment, wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, advanced classes with college credit, lighting and stage equipment for drama and video classes, high tech equipment for STEAM classes, and modern art "sculptures" for the well-manicured front lawns don't want to spend a dollar a day feeding the poor kids so they can learn also.  Especially since the entire justification for taxation for public schools is that the community wants poor kids to have an equal chance at education.


  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #13 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:23pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 8:35am:
Amazing that people who insist on taxing people until they squeal to pay for football stadiums, band equipment, wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, advanced classes with college credit, lighting and stage equipment for drama and video classes, high tech equipment for STEAM classes, and modern art "sculptures" for the well-manicured front lawns don't want to spend a dollar a day feeding the poor kids so they can learn also.  Especially since the entire justification for taxation for public schools is that the community wants poor kids to have an equal chance at education.


Both Lefties and Libertarians tend to be well-off.

They can't understand that a hungry child can't learn because they have never been hungry.

They can't understand that someone who does not feel safe cannot vote for freedom over safety, because they've never had their house broken into.

They live at the top of the pyramid and look down on those below, saying to them, "Lol, how could you choose your basic needs over fulfillment?! You're such an animal. You're such a tribalist. I would vote for freedom over safety even if I wasn't safe, I would let immigrants in even if I starved, and I would choose actualisation and learning even if I was hungry."

But they have never been hungry, or unsafe, or felt threatened.

  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Little Biq Man
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #14 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:56pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:23pm:
Both Lefties and Libertarians tend to be well-off.

They can't understand that a hungry child can't learn because they have never been hungry.

They can't understand that someone who does not feel safe cannot vote for freedom over safety, because they've never had their house broken into.

They live at the top of the pyramid and look down on those below, saying to them, "Lol, how could you choose your basic needs over fulfillment?! You're such an animal. You're such a tribalist. I would vote for freedom over safety even if I wasn't safe, I would let immigrants in even if I starved, and I would choose actualisation and learning even if I was hungry."

But they have never been hungry, or unsafe, or felt threatened.



You know, Opposition.  You have really made me reflect with that post.

I've ridiculed Jeff many times for being not only willing, but eager, to trade freedom for safety.  But, as you say, I am well off.  I have an above average intellect and was raised with a strong work ethic, two advantages that Jeff clearly lacks.  So I have never been hungry and never had to depend on police to keep me secure in my home. 

I still disagree with Jeff's idea that we can tax our way to happiness. I wold gladly contribute to food banks, shelters, addiction counseling and all the other things the Jeffs need to function in the world. 

  
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #15 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 1:33pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:23pm:
Both Lefties and Libertarians tend to be well-off.

They can't understand that a hungry child can't learn because they have never been hungry.

Ha ha. Some of my "leftie" friend grew up very poor, and so did some of my libertarian friends, including me.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #16 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 2:12pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:56pm:
I've ridiculed Jeff many times for being not only willing, but eager, to trade freedom for safety.


He's never been willing to make that trade. He simply defines everything so that when others expend the resource of freedom by imposing risk, it is a rights violation, and when he does it, it is not. He's the better libertarian, plain and simple, and I do not believe he has ever felt unsafe.

Libertarianism is the most lawyeristic of any political or moral philosophy. By that I simply mean that obfuscation, subcategorisation, and redefinition rule the roost. You can always find a way something you don't like is a rights violation, and you can always find a way something you do like is not. Rights are not so clearly defined that anyone can even explain the most basic thing about them and have it stick from one situation to another, such as whether risking others is a rights violation or whether people have to keep their word (even in a contract).

https://mises.org/library/property-rights-and-theory-contracts

"I will give you a mule tomorrow for that bale of hay today."
Not binding even if signed. You can take the hay and run. This is a "mere promise" and can be broken whenever.

"I hereby transfer a mule to you tomorrow for that bale of hay today."
Binding.

Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 12:56pm:
But, as you say, I am well off.  I have an above average intellect and was raised with a strong work ethic, two advantages that Jeff clearly lacks.  So I have never been hungry and never had to depend on police to keep me secure in my home. 

I still disagree with Jeff's idea that we can tax our way to happiness. I wold gladly contribute to food banks, shelters, addiction counseling and all the other things the Jeffs need to function in the world. 


Can you give enough to food banks to feed everyone who is hungry? If you cannot, can you understand that the hungry people will try to get their basic needs met however they can, including by voting for socialism?

Can you also understand that things like mass shootings and hunger are very much libertarian problems, because if you have them, you will not have freedom?

But thank you for the honest reply. I don't get many of those.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #17 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 3:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 2:12pm:
"I will give you a mule tomorrow for that bale of hay today."
Not binding even if signed. You can take the hay and run. This is a "mere promise" and can be broken whenever.

That's binding worm, and if you steal the bale of hay, you are a thief and broke the law.

Contracts are promises.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #18 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 4:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 3:31pm:
That's binding worm, and if you steal the bale of hay, you are a thief and broke the law.

Contracts are promises.


Read the article.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #19 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 5:42pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 4:35pm:
Read the article.
Why?

You borrow 25 cents for a hamburger today, and promise to pay me back tomorrow, but you never do, you stole my 25 cents.

It's probably too  simple for you... have you been consulting with trial lawyers?
  

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