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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource (Read 376 times)
The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #20 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 6:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 5:42pm:
Why?

You borrow 25 cents for a hamburger today, and promise to pay me back tomorrow, but you never do, you stole my 25 cents.

It's probably too  simple for you... have you been consulting with trial lawyers?


Read the article or shut up.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #21 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 7:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 1st, 2019 at 6:39pm:
Read the article or shut up.
Is that a threat? It sounds rather like one...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #22 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 11:11am
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My question to Little Big Man about homeostasis is this:

Who do you think has a narrower range of what is basically comfort? Who will lash out first and demand that others change so their comfort zone is maintained?

A statist, who tolerates being taxed excessively and having their property seized, or a libertarian, who does not tolerate those things?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Big Man
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #23 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 11:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 11:11am:
My question to Little Big Man about homeostasis is this:

Who do you think has a narrower range of what is basically comfort? Who will lash out first and demand that others change so their comfort zone is maintained?

A statist, who tolerates being taxed excessively and having their property seized, or a libertarian, who does not tolerate those things?


Sorry, but I must ask you to permit me to dissect your question before I answer it.

A statist is by definition a person who demands that others change so that his comfort zone is maintained.  True, he is being taxed excessively and having his property seized, but he knows that (almost) everyone else is in the same boat, which the statist finds a comfortable enough boat, be it a leaky rowboat or a yacht. 

So, if we were to begin wth a libertarian society,  and then taxes began to be imposed, clearly it would be the libertarian who would lash out and demand other change.  If others started taxing him, he would demand that they change from being robbers who take his money at gunpoint to being honest service providers who persuade him to voluntarily purchase their services. 

A statist would cheer the taxers on, offering to polish their pistols and lick their jackboots.




  

Snarky no more!
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #24 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 2:55pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 11:11am:
A statist, who tolerates being taxed excessively and having their property seized...
You misunderstand. People with statist ideologies are harmless unless and until they get control of a government (and alter it so it has unlimited power), then they tax others excessively and seize their property.

Statist ideologues lie when they say they themselves want to be taxed excessively or have their property seized.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #25 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 9:51pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 11:33am:
A statist is by definition a person who demands that others change so that his comfort zone is maintained.


Excuse me? Find one instance of me saying someone else should not be allowed to do something. One.

My high tolerance threshold - the same one that makes me not mind if I am taxed, drafted, or made not to risk others - is the very thing that makes me a Statist. It also makes me actually leave other people alone, not just lie and say I will leave other people alone.

Why don't we reduce it to different terms, then? Instead of Statists versus Libertarians, let's make it people who mind less things, and people who mind more things.

Basically, we're assuming everyone is honest.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #26 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 8:01am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 9:51pm:
Why don't we reduce it to different terms, then? Instead of Statists versus Libertarians, let's make it people who mind less things, and people who mind more things.

Basically, we're assuming everyone is honest.
Assuming a sociopath is honest is a fools bet...

Anyway, why not say it's people who think everybody should be free v. people who think everybody (except them) should be controlled?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #27 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 10:29am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 8:01am:
Assuming a sociopath is honest is a fools bet...

Anyway, why not say it's people who think everybody should be free v. people who think everybody (except them) should be controlled?


Because not everyone can be free. There are people who want more freedom than the maximum at the expense of others, and people who don't.

Arguably we're not at the universal maximum but we're close, which is why I absolutely accept that I can't have a tiger. It imposes a risk on you, and however slight, allowing everyone to impose even a slight risk on you adds up to you being dead.

I would even say we're well beyond the universal sustainable maximum of freedom, which means we're living beyond our means and choosing policies that give us greater freedom now at the expense of more freedom later.

If you want an example, unlimited immigration is a policy that is pro-freedom now, respecting all the communist immigrants' rights to travel, but as they impose communism, it will cost more freedom later.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Maslow Pyramid and Libertarianism - Freedom as a Resource
Reply #28 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 7:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 10:29am:
Because not everyone can be free.
Everyone other than criminals can be equally free within the circumstances they are in... Unless of course the laws are applied unequally... That happens a lot these days, and it isn't libertarians doing it.

Let's talk about the other side of it, people who want control over others...

But wait, that's who I was talking about.
  

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