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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Executive Branch Departments (Read 1382 times)
Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #50 - Sep 7th, 2019 at 5:55pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 7th, 2019 at 5:39pm:
They never said that unless you can cite me a case.
They effectively did it through a number of decisions, some worse than others.

Help yourself to learning about the decisions. It's quite easy in these days of a sort-of-free internet.

Be quick, a sort-of-free internet might not last long...
  

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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #51 - Sep 7th, 2019 at 6:02pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 7th, 2019 at 5:39pm:
You don't think that Slavemaster Madison was smart enough to realize that the constitution was flexible enough to allow almost any conceivable growth in government power?
He was smart enough to try very hard to make sure only the people, acting through Article V, could approve any increase in government power.

Of course he wasn't completely knowledgeable about the future, and probably never imagined that the Constitution would be altered to require the election of Senators by popular vote.

Certainly not by a popular vote where the electoral process was controlled by political parties and less than half of the people would bother to vote.

Silly Jemmie...

No, you portray him as evil... Evil Jemmie, to want to limit increases in government power to approval by the people.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #52 - Sep 7th, 2019 at 10:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 7th, 2019 at 6:02pm:
He was smart enough to try very hard to make sure only the people, acting through Article V, could approve any increase in government power.

Of course he wasn't completely knowledgeable about the future, and probably never imagined that the Constitution would be altered to require the election of Senators by popular vote.

Certainly not by a popular vote where the electoral process was controlled by political parties and less than half of the people would bother to vote.

Silly Jemmie...

No, you portray him as evil...


A slave master?

Yes, I believe I can portray a slave master as evil without fear of rebuke from any reasonable person.

Do you disagree?

If so, why?

  
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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #53 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 7:14am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 7th, 2019 at 10:13pm:
A slave master?

Yes, I believe I can portray a slave master as evil without fear of rebuke from any reasonable person.

Do you disagree?

If so, why?

That's a not very clever way of avoiding the essential question.

In helping to create a government where only the people could change the law that governs the government, Jefferson was a hero of individual Liberty.

You focus on whatever you think is most important today.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #54 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 10:32am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 7th, 2019 at 6:02pm:
He was smart enough to try very hard to make sure only the people, acting through Article V, could approve any increase in government power.




Let's take this a step at a time.  You do agree that the main stated purpose of switching away from the Articles of Confederation to the U.S. Constitution was to strengthen the central government, correct?

With anyone else, that would be a rhetorical question since that point was stated so many time by the framers. 

But with you, I have to ask.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #55 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:13pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 10:32am:
Let's take this a step at a time.  You do agree that the main stated purpose of switching away from the Articles of Confederation to the U.S. Constitution was to strengthen the central government, correct?

With anyone else, that would be a rhetorical question since that point was stated so many time by the framers. 

But with you, I have to ask.

I'm still waiting for your answer, your explanation of what enumerated grant of power in the Constitution makes it necessary to create a Dept. of Agriculture...

That it is somehow "necessary" for keeping trade between the states regular isn't it... But you can try to make that case if you want to. Smiley
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #56 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:13pm:
I'm still waiting for your answer, your explanation of what enumerated grant of power in the Constitution makes it necessary to create a Dept. of Agriculture...

That it is somehow "necessary" for keeping trade between the states regular isn't it... But you can try to make that case if you want to. Smiley


The constitution grants power to congress to decide what is necessary and proper.  It doesn't say anything about Little Biq Man having to convince Jeff that a department or law is necessary and proper.

Your redress is with the USSC, not me.

So, anyway . . .

You do agree that the stated purpose of switching from the Articles of Confederation to the U.S. Constitution was to strengthen the central government, correct?

Refusing to answer will be taken as an admission that I am correct.

Thanks.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #57 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:37pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:33pm:
The constitution grants power to congress to decide what is necessary and proper. 
Yes, necessary and proper for accomplishing things like creating a navy.

Please complete this sentence- "The creation of a Department of Agriculture was necessary because it serves to put the granted power of _____ into practical effect."
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #58 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:37pm:
Yes, necessary and proper for accomplishing things like creating a navy.

Please complete this sentence- "The creation of a Department of Agriculture was necessary because it serves to put the granted power of _____ into practical effect."


Wow, that is so easy!

The creation of a Department of Agriculture was necessary because it serves to put the granted power of _Regulation of interstate commerce____ into practical effect.

So, now that you admit that the stated purpose of the constitution was to strengthen the central government, why are you so surprised that the central government used it to increase its power?

  
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #59 - Sep 8th, 2019 at 12:52pm
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Jeff, here's the case you want to read about:

McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)
Summary

McCulloch v. Maryland (1819) is one of the first and most important Supreme Court cases on federal power. In this case, the Supreme Court held that Congress has implied powers derived from those listed in Article I, Section 8. The “Necessary and Proper” Clause gave Congress the power to establish a national bank.


Notice the date was 1819, hardly a "New Deal Court," correct
  
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