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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Executive Branch Departments (Read 914 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #80 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 9:35am
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Little q Man, if I may:

The reason you keep answering Jeff and he keeps telling you to "fill in the blank," when you already did, is that Jeff actually expects you to go into his post and fill in the blank line he typed.  He's very literal that way.  So he looks at his own post, sees that you haven't written in it, and thinks, 'Oh, boy!  I've got him stumped now!'

He doesn't get that you have no way to edit his post, so you are using the quote button and then putting in your answer in the quoted blank line doesn't register with him.

You're not exactly dealing with the head of the class, here . . .
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2019 at 1:10pm by Little Big Man »  

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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #81 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 2:27pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 9:35am:
Little q Man, if I may:

The reason you keep answering Jeff and he keeps telling you to "fill in the blank," when you already did, is that Jeff actually expects you to go into his post and fill in the blank line he typed.  He's very literal that way.  So he looks at his own post, sees that you haven't written in it, and thinks, 'Oh, boy!  I've got him stumped now!'

He doesn't get that you have no way to edit his post, so you are using the quote button and then putting in your answer in the quoted blank line doesn't register with him.

You're not exactly dealing with the head of the class, here . . .
All that need be done is to say, "the answer is _____."

To make sure I understand, LBM could say, "The granted power in the Constitution that makes HUD necessary is ___". Then even a dim bulb like me couldn't fail to understand his answer.

The simple fact is, LMB doesn't want to say... It will lead him into a trap created by the people who interpreted the commerce clause expansively, as a general power. Smiley

  

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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #82 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 9th, 2019 at 8:23pm:
Another easy one:

"The Department of Housing and Urban Development was created because it's necessary to execute the Constitutionally granted power to __regulate interstate commerce!___."
"Necessary"? How so?

Does it not seem more reasonable to believe that HUD is "necessary" to execute the general welfare clause?

But either power will do, won't they, as long as you read them as general powers.

If the commerce clause is expansive enough to require that the entire economy be taken under federal control, why, the economy certainly encompasses houses and cities and the people who live in them.

Your claim is that the founders created a tyrannical government and did it on the sly, so no one would notice when they were engaged in debates about ratifying the proposed Constitution.

That's absurd, and could only be believed by someone who is ignorant of the times and the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution.

What benefit for Jemmie Madison to help create a tyrannical government? What benefit for Ben Franklin? What benefit for Alex Hamilton? Or John Jay? Or Jefferson?

These people had just recently risked their lives throwing off a tyrannical government...

Do you really know nothing? Or, more likely, as you have constantly on this forum, you just want to discredit the founders, the Constitution, and America.

How will that benefit you?

  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #83 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:23pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 2:27pm:
All that need be done is to say, "the answer is _____."

To make sure I understand, LBM could say, "The granted power in the Constitution that makes HUD necessary is ___". Then even a dim bulb like me couldn't fail to understand his answer.

The simple fact is, LMB doesn't want to say... It will lead him into a trap created by the people who interpreted the commerce clause expansively, as a general power. Smiley



But he did say.

You just responded to his filling in that blank in the reply above.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #84 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:32pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:23pm:
But he did say.

You just responded to his filling in that blank in the reply above.


Well, I have to admit, there being two of you confuses me a bit sometimes, especially when I start to imagine there really are two of you. Cheesy
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #85 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Well, I have to admit, there being two of you confuses me a bit sometimes, especially when I start to imagine there really are two of you. Cheesy


Sometimes I imagine that there are two Jeffs.  Because how could only one person make so many mistakes and never own up to them?


  

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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #86 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 4:52pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
Sometimes I imagine that there are two Jeffs.  Because how could only one person make so many mistakes and never own up to them?


I've met quite a few people who were way worse than me...

Perhaps as you get a little older, you'll decide I was doing pretty well...

Thank you! Smiley Smiley Smiley
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #87 - Sep 10th, 2019 at 7:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
"Necessary"? How so?

Does it not seem more reasonable to believe that HUD is "necessary" to execute the general welfare clause?


"General welfare" is in the preamble, so I'm not sure that it is properly called a clause.

Do you believe that the framers intended for the stronger central government under the U.S. Constitution to promote the general welfare?

Quote:
But either power will do, won't they, as long as you read them as general powers.
[quote]
If the commerce clause is expansive enough to require that the entire economy be taken under federal control, why, the economy certainly encompasses houses and cities and the people who live in them.


I don't know about all that.  The commerce clause is certainly expansive enough that it allows congress to regulate housing (unless your claim is that people never move across state lines to buy or sell housing).

Quote:
Your claim is that the founders created a tyrannical government and did it on the sly, so no one would notice when they were engaged in debates about ratifying the proposed Constitution.

That's absurd, and could only be believed by someone who is ignorant of the times and the people who wrote and ratified the Constitution.

What benefit for Jemmie Madison to help create a tyrannical government? What benefit for Ben Franklin? What benefit for Alex Hamilton? Or John Jay? Or Jefferson?

These people had just recently risked their lives throwing off a tyrannical government...


Gosh . . . how would Slave Masters Hamilton, Franklin and Jefferson benefit from a tyrannical government?  Oh, wait.  By protecting the slave trade and ensuring that states are responsible for catching any of their slaves that happened to escape.  Hard to think of anything more tyrannical than returning escaped slaves to their slave masters.

Do you seriously claim that Alexander Hamilton opposed centralized government involvement in the economy?  Have you ever read about Hamilton?

Quote:
Do you really know nothing? Or, more likely, as you have constantly on this forum, you just want to discredit the founders, the Constitution, and America.

How will that benefit you?



I just want you to be aware of the obvious truth that the constitution grants power to congress to decide what is necessary and proper under the enumerated powers and that it gives you a venue to object if you disagree - the U.S. Supreme Court.

Have at it!

Edited:
Was the trap you were laying for me that you hoped I would cite the "General Welfare Clause," so you could say, "That's not a clause!"?  If so, not a bad try, I must say.  I almost wish I had fallen for it since besting you at debates isn't much sport lately.  You could use a win.

So, I do believe the framers when they said that one purpose of the new stronger central government is to promote the general welfare.  Why would they lie about that?  But congress does have an obligation to use the enumerated powers to promote the general welfare, provide for the common defense, form a more perfect union, etc.  If anyone thinks that congress overstepped that, they can appeal to the USSC.

I'm still not understanding what your objection to that is?


  
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Jeff
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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #88 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 6:50am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
"General welfare" is in the preamble, so I'm not sure that it is properly called a clause.


It's also in Article I, Section 8.
Here:

https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
  

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Re: Executive Branch Departments
Reply #89 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 6:52am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 10th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
Do you believe that the framers intended for the stronger central government under the U.S. Constitution to promote the general welfare?
Like it says, to provide for the common defense and general welfare.
  

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