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SkyChief
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Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:58am
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"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”


If the State required that a citizen obtain a special licence to keep and bear arms, would that be an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Many people claim it would.   But we don't care about how individuals interpret the Law.   We care about how the Supreme Court interprets the Law.

Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?

What if the President demands federal Gun Licensing by Executive Order? 

Let's not forget the PATRIOT Act of 2001.   It blatantly violated 4th Amendment rights of all Americans.  It gave the government the power to monitor the private conversations/communications of citizens without a warrant.

SCOTUS looked the other way - not a peep from them.  Could they do the same with Gun Licensing? 
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #1 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 2:24pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:58am:
"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”


If the State required that a citizen obtain a special licence to keep and bear arms, would that be an infringement on the 2nd Amendment?

Many people claim it would.   But we don't care about how individuals interpret the Law.   We care about how the Supreme Court interprets the Law.

Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?

What if the President demands federal Gun Licensing by Executive Order? 

Let's not forget the PATRIOT Act of 2001.   It blatantly violated 4th Amendment rights of all Americans.  It gave the government the power to monitor the private conversations/communications of citizens without a warrant.

SCOTUS looked the other way - not a peep from them.  Could they do the same with Gun Licensing? 
I thought you didn't care about that law crap?

Anyway, "infringe" is the key word.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe


Definition of infringe

transitive verb
1 : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

And that leads us to "encroach".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/encroach


Definition of encroach

intransitive verb
1 : to enter by gradual steps or by stealth into the possessions or rights of another

Did the people who wrote and ratified the 2nd Amendment use the word "infringe" in it's common meaning? Yes.


  

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SkyChief
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #2 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 2:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 2:24pm:
Anyway, "infringe" is the key word.

Did the people who wrote and ratified the 2nd Amendment use the word "infringe" in it's common meaning? Yes.
You didn't answer my question:

Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?

There is no right or wrong answer - I'm asking you (all) to speculate.

My position is that there is precedent.    if SCOTUS could allow the PATRIOT Act to become Law, then they could also allow infringements on Gun Rights in the form of mandatory federal licensing.

SCOTUS has already demonstrated their willingness to overstep the Bill of Rights in the name of safety.
  

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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #3 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:23pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 2:45pm:
You didn't answer my question:

Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?

They did, back in the heyday of the Progressive Era.

I'm surprised you don't know about it. Disappointed in you. Cry Cry Cry
  

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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #4 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:23pm:
They did, back in the heyday of the Progressive Era.

I'm surprised you don't know about it. Disappointed in you. Cry Cry Cry

I knew that Gun Shop owners must obtain licenses from the ATF to operate, but I was not aware that federal gun licensing Laws applied to private citizens.

That's literally incredible!    Wow.   Shocked   How did this slip under the radar?    Does the NRA know?
  

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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #5 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:06pm:
I knew that Gun Shop owners must obtain licenses from the ATF to operate, but I was not aware that federal gun licensing Laws applied to private citizens.

That's literally incredible!    Wow.   Shocked   How did this slip under the radar?    Does the NRA know?
Mostly it resulted from alcohol prohibition and mobsters machine gunning each other with Tommy Guns. Sometime they shot at the police too, but not usually. Often they hit innocent bystanders.

I think Bonnie and Clyde (children of the Great Depression) had a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) that they used to win a shoot out with police at least once.

The "solution" was to require strict licensing procedures for owning machine guns...

Really, I thought everybody knew this...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #6 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:21pm:
Mostly it resulted from alcohol prohibition and mobsters machine gunning each other with Tommy Guns. Sometime they shot at the police too, but not usually. Often they hit innocent bystanders.

I think Bonnie and Clyde (children of the Great Depression) had a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) that they used to win a shoot out with police at least once.

The "solution" was to require strict licensing procedures for owning machine guns...

Really, I thought everybody knew this...
Ok. . .yes,  I knew about licensing for fully automatic firearms.

In THIS thread we are discussing mandatory licensing for ALL firearms. . . . incl. muzzle-loaded flintlock muskets.

That's what the Democrats are pushing for.  They demand that any citizen who wants to keep and bear arms MUST be licensed.  And the proposed Federal Gun License may be revoked any time, for any reason.

Andrew Yang,  Spartacus (Corey Booker),  Pete Buttigieg,  Kamala Harris promise to implement mandatory gun licensing if/when they become president.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #7 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:06pm
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Here's basically how the proposed Federal Gun License plan would work:

The FBI will administer gun licenses to citizens.

To obtain a license, Mr. Citizen would go to designated outposts — similar to the passport system — to get a federal license, administered by the FBI. Applicants would need to pay a fee; submit paperwork, a photo, and fingerprints; sit for an interview; pass a comprehensive background check; and go through gun safety training to get a gun. The license would be valid for five years, although it could be revoked at any time.

This would be a serious violation of 2nd Amendment. 

Would SCOTUS look the other way?      Would the NRA sit on their hands?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #8 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:19pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:52pm:
In THIS thread we are discussing mandatory licensing for ALL firearms. . . . incl. muzzle-loaded flintlock muskets.

This was your question Chief-

"Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?"

The answer is yes, they have already allowed it.

Are we talking about being a little bit pregnant?

Edit: BTW, SCOTUS doesn't act to allow legislation, or prevent legislation, they can only act to strike down unconstitutional legislation.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #9 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:23pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:06pm:
Here's basically how the proposed Federal Gun License plan would work:

The FBI will administer gun licenses to citizens.

To obtain a license, Mr. Citizen would go to designated outposts — similar to the passport system — to get a federal license, administered by the FBI. Applicants would need to pay a fee; submit paperwork, a photo, and fingerprints; sit for an interview; pass a comprehensive background check; and go through gun safety training to get a gun. The license would be valid for five years, although it could be revoked at any time.

This would be a serious violation of 2nd Amendment. 

Would SCOTUS look the other way?      Would the NRA sit on their hands?
SCOTUS has already allowed "reasonable" encroachments, so, if they follow SCOTUS precedent, which 'progressive justices love to do (as long as it's "progressive" precedent) the only question is will they think that's a reasonable encroachment on our rights.

It will take years to find out what SCOTUS thinks about it... You know that, right?
  

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