Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II? (Read 371 times)
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11969
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #10 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:58pm
Print Post  
Nothing violates anything as long as the cleverest interpreter of the law is on your side.

This forum taught me that.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12448
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #11 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:18pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:19pm:
This was your question Chief-

"Would the Supreme Court allow Gun Licensing legislation to be passed into Law?"

The answer is yes, they have already allowed it.

Are we talking about being a little bit pregnant?

It's a fair point.   Smiley

Jeff wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:19pm:
SCOTUS doesn't act to allow legislation, or prevent legislation, they can only act to strike down unconstitutional legislation.

The PATRIOT Act of 2001 was patently unconstitutional.   SCOTUS did nothing.  The Act passed, and was signed into Law on October 26th 2001.

Who dropped the ball, here?
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50568
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 8:23am
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:18pm:
It's a fair point.   Smiley

The PATRIOT Act of 2001 was patently unconstitutional.   SCOTUS did nothing.  The Act passed, and was signed into Law on October 26th 2001.

Who dropped the ball, here?
Congress created the problem, and the President, by not vetoing the bill, but instead signing it, turned the problem into law, but, like most "laws" in the latter days of the Progressive Era, the Patriot Act is not one law, but many, a bundle of laws.

Each of those bundled laws (let's call lit a fasces) must be challenged separately, first in Federal Court, then the Appeals Court, and then, maybe, SCOTUS will take up the issue if the Appeals Courts are divided.

Some parts of the Act have, I think, been declared unconstitutional.

Part of it at least was held by SCOTUS to be Constitutional:

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0621/Supreme-Court-upholds-controvers...

Really, "Who dropped the ball?" is a question that could be taken back to the New Deal Court when they re-interpreted the Constitution as a grant of unlimited power to be used for "the general Welfare"...

Since the Patriot Act purports to be in the interests of our welfare, Congress can enact it, and courts that follow the New Deal Court's precedents will approve it.

It's a sorry fact that the Constitutional "authorization" used for much of what Congress enacts and Presidents sign into law is the "general Welfare" clause, and almost all the rest of it is supposedly "authorized" by the "commerce clause" or the "necessary and proper" clause.

The "progressive" claim is that the Constitution is a grant of unlimited power to Congress.

Hey, I know, let's say that "progressives" stole the ball and substituted a ball of a different sort, one which changed the game entirely!
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12448
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 12:10pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 8:23am:
Some parts of the Act have, I think, been declared unconstitutional.

Part of it at least was held by SCOTUS to be Constitutional:

Indeed, there were many moving parts to the PATRIOT Act.

The primary goal of the Act was to give power to the state to surveil citizens' communications without due process.   

The Act granted government the power to conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed, or will commit a crime.

"Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50568
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 12:41pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 12:10pm:
Indeed, there were many moving parts to the PATRIOT Act.

The primary goal of the Act was to give power to the state to surveil citizens' communications without due process.   

The Act granted government the power to conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed, or will commit a crime.

That part is clearly unconstitutional.

Hacky Snack will say it's constitutional if SCOTUS says it is... Cry
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12448
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 2:45pm
Print Post  
Democrat candidates are clear they intend to confiscate our guns.

Beto:  "They will have to sell them to the government."

“They are not buying them back.  It’s gun confiscation.  Nothing but that. An attempt to eliminate a constitutional right the ruling class finds inconvenient.” said Tucker Carlson.

He continues:
“It won’t reduce gun violence.  In fact, sending armed authorities door-to-door to seize people’s lawfully owned weapons is a sure-fire recipe for causing violence.  If you cared about America and the people who live here, you would not suggest that.  But they don’t hesitate.”

A gun confiscation in America will fail on at least two levels:

1) Only a very small percentage of gun owners would actually turn them in.  Almost certainly less than 15%. That means that door-to-door confiscation would need to be implemented to gather up the remaining 250 million firearms.

2) Once door-to-door confiscation begins, organized militias will form and civilians will be fighting against the federal government.   This is precisely what the Dems want.    They want gun owners to be shot and killed.   Many will, no doubt.   But it will expose the core problem in America.  And it will be the gun-grabbing dems against everyone else.   

I believe the freedom-loving Americans will prevail in an all-out Civil War against a tyrannical democrat/socialist government.   

Is this delusional thinking?  Do I need a reality check?
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50568
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 4:43pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
Democrat candidates are clear they intend to confiscate our guns.

They'd like to, but like everything else they talk about, they don't actually have a practical plan, they are just dreaming and wishing.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50568
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 4:46pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
2) Once door-to-door confiscation begins...
Folks around here are likely to call the Sheriff's office. They have a sort of semi-formed plan for how to deal with such things. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50568
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #18 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 4:47pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
I believe the freedom-loving Americans will prevail in an all-out Civil War...
Who do you think will be lined up against us?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12448
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Reply #19 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 6:30pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 4:47pm:
Who do you think will be lined up against us?
I suppose FBI, ATF, IRS, local law enforcement, and Antifa. 

I'm not worried about the US Army or Marines.  They would never follow an executive order to confiscate.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Mandatory Gun Licensing - Would That Violate Amendment II?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy