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The Opposition
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Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:57pm
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A group of libertarian extraterrestrials arrive on Earth tomorrow. For the purposes of this scenario, they are identical to the ID4 aliens except for one trait: They're absolutely libertarian.

They've been watching Humans for some time now and they proceed to reap Earth like a wheat field, resources, Humans and all. They begin destroying cities, exactly as they did in the movie, except that when communication is reached, they reveal they have moral justification for the reaping of Earth.

The aliens have seen how Humans behave and they claim that because Humans as a whole have historically had no respect for property rights, Humans are themselves animals without rights. The planet does not belong to Humans any more than it belongs to cows. It is unclaimed land, and the aliens simply stake their claim.

What is your reaction?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #1 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:36pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:57pm:
A group of libertarian extraterrestrials arrive on Earth tomorrow. For the purposes of this scenario, they are identical to the ID4 aliens except for one trait: They're absolutely libertarian.
Absolutely except for the Non Aggression Principle.   Oooops.  . .   guess what?   They're not libertarian.   Not even close.  The NAP is the cornerstone of Libertarian philosophy.

The Opposition wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:57pm:
They've been watching Humans for some time now and they proceed to reap Earth like a wheat field, resources, Humans and all. They begin destroying cities, . . .
That's not libertarian at all.    Angry
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #2 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 8:30am
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:57pm:
A group of libertarian extraterrestrials arrive on Earth tomorrow. For the purposes of this scenario, they are identical to the ID4 aliens except for one trait: They're absolutely libertarian.

They've been watching Humans for some time now and they proceed to reap Earth like a wheat field, resources, Humans and all. They begin destroying cities, exactly as they did in the movie, except that when communication is reached, they reveal they have moral justification for the reaping of Earth.

The aliens have seen how Humans behave and they claim that because Humans as a whole have historically had no respect for property rights, Humans are themselves animals without rights. The planet does not belong to Humans any more than it belongs to cows. It is unclaimed land, and the aliens simply stake their claim.

What is your reaction?
You are still completely clueless as to what libertarianism is. Cry Cry Cry
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #3 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 8:36am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:36pm:
The NAP is the cornerstone of Libertarian philosophy.
Says who?

I say it's a part of libertarian theory, an important part, but it's a principle that arises out of the recognition of equality of rights... If rights don't exist, then their is no such thing as aggression.

I'll put the recognition of the Rights of Man as a cornerstone of libertarian theory, and one that's a precondition for the formulation of the NAP.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #4 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 10:09am
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 11:36pm:
Absolutely except for the Non Aggression Principle.   Oooops.  . .   guess what?   They're not libertarian.   Not even close.  The NAP is the cornerstone of Libertarian philosophy.

That's not libertarian at all.    Angry


Jeff wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 8:36am:
I'll put the recognition of the Rights of Man as a cornerstone of libertarian theory, and one that's a precondition for the formulation of the NAP.


Absolutely correct.

These aliens propose that since they haven't had murder or theft on their homeworld for many thousands of years, they have the Rights of Man, and since Humans continue to kill and steal, they do not.

Humans are animals, they say, without rights.

How do you respond?

The NAP doesn't apply to animals or anthills.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #5 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 12:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 10:09am:
These aliens propose that since they haven't had murder or theft on their homeworld for many thousands of years, they have the Rights of Man, and since Humans continue to kill and steal, they do not.

Humans are animals, they say, without rights.

How do you respond?

The NAP doesn't apply to animals or anthills.
Since they come to conquer and destroy, I guess it means war. Cry
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #6 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 7:49pm
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Those aliens are exactly as libertarian as our founding fathers and constitution framers.

Lots of high-falutin' talk about "all men are created equal," but with a special definition of the word "men" to exclude all those the founders did not want to feel equal to.

Hey, Jeff . . . were some of the founders relatives of yours?

  
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #7 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 9:00pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 7:49pm:
Those aliens are exactly as libertarian as our founding fathers and constitution framers.

Lots of high-falutin' talk about "all men are created equal," but with a special definition of the word "men" to exclude all those the founders did not want to feel equal to.


Yes, so what is your response? Do you fight the aliens or agree they have the right to kick over our anthill?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Biq Man
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2019 at 8:34pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
Yes, so what is your response? Do you fight the aliens or agree they have the right to kick over our anthill?


Oh, no, I fight.

If I had been a native American or a slave, I would have fought the founders.  If, I had been a small business owner who rented his shop building, I would have ignored the constitution after it was ratified in a process I was not allowed to participate in. 

If I had been a southerner being attacked by Lincoln's army of slaves, I would have fought them.


  
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yamcha
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Re: Libertarian Aliens Descend Tomorrow
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2019 at 8:41pm
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The Opposition wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
Yes, so what is your response? Do you fight the aliens or agree they have the right to kick over our anthill?


Your point is that the Libertarian aliens wouldn't care if you are unhappy ir if you fought back.  You are trying to show that Libertarians turn might into right.  Right?
  
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