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SkyChief
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There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Sep 11th, 2019 at 1:06pm
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18 Years ago today, 19 pissed off middle-class Saudis turned commercial passenger jets into weapons of mass destruction.  They killed 3000 and injured 6000.   But many later died as a result of illnesses from the attack.

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All the airport security, nuclear missiles, air defense command centers, bombers, fighter jets, aircraft carriers, destroyers, spooks, spies, analysts, and supercomputers could not protect a single American from a small group of middle-class Saudi kids with box-cutters and a few hours of Cessna training.


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For libertarians 9/11 was especially troubling precisely because of the intense public demand for Congress and the Bush administration to do something. Whether that something was rational, just, or even served American interests was almost beside the point. The people wanted blood, and after the images of bodies jumping from the twin towers who can blame the politicians in DC for obliging them? If there are no atheists in foxholes, there are very few libertarians after terrorist attacks. Our uneasy job was to counsel reason and restraint, even if that meant shouting into a wind tunnel.


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18 years later, the War on Terror™ has yielded hundreds of thousands of dead and injured Americans, Iraqis, and Afghans, ongoing and intractable wars disguised as nation building, the Patriot Act, illegal executive actions, trillions in new federal debt, vastly increased federal surveillance powers, rubber stamped FISA court warrants, TSA at the airports, a useless Department of Homeland Security, overflowing VA hospitals, and increasingly militarized police here at home. More importantly, it has yielded a distressing complacency toward grotesque federal power.

It has not yielded peace, or liberty, or security. But liberty vs. security was never the choice.


https://mises.org/wire/what-we-lost-september-11th?fbclid=IwAR0j_vCEAGBGyD5L2DFF...
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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SkyChief
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #1 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 1:12pm
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On October 26th 2001, Congress passed the PATRIOT Act.  Bush (43) signed it.

Under the PATRIOT Act, the FBI has the power to secretly conduct a physical search or wiretap on American citizens to obtain evidence of crime without proving probable cause, as the 4th Amendment explicitly requires.

The Act blatantly violated the US Constitution. The fact that it went unchallenged by the Supreme Court should scare the bejesus out of each and every American.   This slippery slope opened the door for more slippery slopes.

I was a registered Republican on October 25th.  On October 26th, I ripped up my republican card and became a libertarian.  I realized how out-of-control and powerful our government had become.

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed."
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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ahhell
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #2 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 2:47pm
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There are certainly a lot fewer libertarians after terrorist attacks.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #3 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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Thanks for posting this on the day when so many Americans are letting themselves get geeked up with self-rightousness all over again.

I was just as guilty.  After 9/11, I questioned then need to even have FISA courts because they would - and should - be a rubber stamp for our intelligence agencies. 

Now we see the folly of that.  Look how they treated a future president, imagine how little they would respect the rights of some schmoe like me.

  

Snarky no more!
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #4 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:06pm
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Most libertarians are in favor of national defense and of punishing criminals and terrorists (who are just a nasty form of criminal).

Most libertarians also opposed the Patriot Act, even back when it was introduced in Congress right after the Oklahoma City federal bldg. bombing.
  

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Jeff
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #5 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:08pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
Thanks for posting this on the day when so many Americans are letting themselves get geeked up with self-rightousness all over again.

I was just as guilty.  After 9/11, I questioned then need to even have FISA courts because they would - and should - be a rubber stamp for our intelligence agencies. 

Now we see the folly of that.  Look how they treated a future president, imagine how little they would respect the rights of some schmoe like me.

FISA "Court"=Star Chamber.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #6 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:06pm:
Most libertarians are in favor of national defense and of punishing criminals and terrorists (who are just a nasty form of criminal).

Did you know that some of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks HAVE NOT YET BEEN INDICTED AND ARE STILL BEING HELD IN "DETENTION" AT GUANTANAMO BAY?
  

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Jeff
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #7 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 5:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:17pm:
Did you know that some of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks HAVE NOT YET BEEN INDICTED AND ARE STILL BEING HELD IN "DETENTION" AT GUANTANAMO BAY?
Obviously, they don't have adequate evidence to have a prayer of convicting them.

I say, just push them out the gate and let the Cubans deal with them. Turn-about is fair play.

Edit: Here's a theory, if they took them to trial, things would come out that the Deep State doesn't want anybody to know about... I sort of like this one...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #8 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 9:16pm
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This is what I was saying about the Maslow pyramid. You can only take away so much safety before people say it's enough and start sacrificing freedoms to regain safety.

This is why I can't have a tiger. If everybody is allowed to impose even a minuscule risk on you, that adds up to you being dead.

This is why libertarians always covet freedoms. They know there's only so much to go around if freedom entails risking others, even a little.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #9 - Sep 11th, 2019 at 9:27pm
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9/11 had nothing to do with Arabs or Bin Laden, nothing.
  
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