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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack (Read 848 times)
kaz
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #30 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 1:06pm:
18 Years ago today, 19 pissed off middle-class Saudis turned commercial passenger jets into weapons of mass destruction.  They killed 3000 and injured 6000.   But many later died as a result of illnesses from the attack.


I think retaliating against al Qaeda and the Taliban was completely libertarian, I don't really get your point.  What was and is a bad idea is nation building.  We had every right though to destroy their leaders and facilities and frankly give them rules and keep destroying anything we didn't allow them to have until they can prove they are no longer a threat
  

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kaz
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #31 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:11pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 4:17pm:
Did you know that some of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks HAVE NOT YET BEEN INDICTED AND ARE STILL BEING HELD IN "DETENTION" AT GUANTANAMO BAY?


I see no requirement that we provide foreign citizens in foreign countries protection of US laws as they are in the United States.

It would be good though if there could at least be a military trial for prolonged detention though rather than none
  

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SkyChief
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #32 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:52pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:10pm:
I think retaliating against al Qaeda and the Taliban was completely libertarian, I don't really get your point. 
The original post was a premise for this:

SkyChief wrote on Sep 11th, 2019 at 1:12pm:
On October 26th 2001, Congress passed the PATRIOT Act.  Bush (43) signed it.

Under the PATRIOT Act, the FBI has the power to secretly conduct a physical search or wiretap on American citizens to obtain evidence of crime without proving probable cause, as the 4th Amendment explicitly requires.

The Act blatantly violated the US Constitution. 

The point is that the actions of 19 foreigner radicals caused Congress, the president, the Supreme Court, and the entire nation to disregard our highest, most sacred set of Laws - the US Constitution.

Once that was done, government was empowered to overstep any part of our Constitution they deemed necessary.

That toothpaste will never be stuffed back in the tube.  It will only become more powerful, and at some point patriots are going to say "Enough is enough."   American Revolution 2.0 is approaching.

Hopefully, I'll be dead when it happens.   It won't be pretty.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #33 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:52pm:
The original post was a premise for this:

The point is that the actions of 19 foreigner radicals caused Congress, the president, the Supreme Court, and the entire nation to disregard our highest, most sacred set of Laws - the US Constitution.

Once that was done, government was empowered to overstep any part of our Constitution they deemed necessary.

That toothpaste will never be stuffed back in the tube.  It will only become more powerful, and at some point patriots are going to say "Enough is enough."   American Revolution 2.0 is approaching.

Hopefully, I'll be dead when it happens.   It won't be pretty.


The thread title implies that people who are libertarians stop being libertarian after terrorist attacks.  I don't see who's doing that
  

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SkyChief
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #34 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 3:11pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:36pm:
The thread title implies that people who are libertarians stop being libertarian after terrorist attacks.  I don't see who's doing that
I meant to demonstrate that many libertarians are willing to sacrifice freedom for (the illusion of) safety.

A better title would have been There Are Fewer Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack.

Smiley
  

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Jeff
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #35 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:18pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 1:11pm:
I see no requirement that we provide foreign citizens in foreign countries protection of US laws as they are in the United States.

If you hope to have your rights respected by other nations when you are there, you have to extend them the same courtesy here.

Anyway, we only have one codified law, and it doesn't allow the most basic rights of anyone to be denied. Non-citizens of course do not enjoy all the privileges and immunitys that Citizens have.
  

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Jeff
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #36 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:20pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 3:11pm:
I meant to demonstrate that many libertarians are willing to sacrifice freedom for (the illusion of) safety.

I would say that some are, but most libertarians aren't, because they know it is a bad trade, and the safety is illusory.

Libertarians are far more likely to know that.
  

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kaz
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #37 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:53pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:18pm:
If you hope to have your rights respected by other nations when you are there, you have to extend them the same courtesy here.

Anyway, we only have one codified law, and it doesn't allow the most basic rights of anyone to be denied. Non-citizens of course do not enjoy all the privileges and immunitys that Citizens have.


This is just stupid.  Comparing US citizens in civilized countries to terrorists who are trying to murder us is asinine.  Name a country that is saying if the US doesn't give Constitutional rights to terrorists in the middle east then they see no reason to give US citizens on vacation in their country the protection of their laws like we do theirs.

Jeff:  We need to get a warrant and read terrorists their rights before killing or detaining them in the Middle East.

Yeah, moron
  

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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #38 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:59pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:53pm:
This is just stupid.  Comparing US citizens in civilized countries to terrorists who are trying to murder us is asinine.  Name a country that is saying if the US doesn't give Constitutional rights to terrorists in the middle east then they see no reason to give US citizens on vacation in their country the protection of their laws like we do theirs


What do you expect?  You are quoting a guy who started drinking at 7 am Thanksgiving morning and by the time the turkey was ready, was so hungover that he ran to the bathroom and puked and shat simultaneously into the same toilet.
  
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kaz
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Re: There Are No Libertarians After A Terrorist Attack
Reply #39 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:48pm
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That's Jeff ...
  

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