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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Taxation As A Weapon (Read 1658 times)
SkyChief
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Taxation As A Weapon
Sep 12th, 2019 at 2:21pm
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The left likes to use taxation to harm people, or to modify behavior.

Pocahontas wants to take our guns.   But she can't.   The 2nd Amendment protects our right to keep and bear arms.

So how can she discourage people from owning firearms? How can she make it painful for law-abiding citizens to have guns?

Simple.       Tax the crap out of them.       Ammunition too.   

“Faced with a complex and entrenched public health crisis, made worse by the ongoing inability of a corrupt government to do anything about it, it’s easy to despair.  But we are not incapable of solving big problems. We’ve done it before.”

Currently, handguns are taxed at 10%, while all other guns and ammunition are taxed at 11%.

Pocahontas would TRIPLE the tax on guns to 30%, and raise the tax on ammunition to 50%.   Shocked

She says this huge tax hike will reduce gun related death by 80%.   

“Enough is enough.” said Pocahontas.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth-warren-taxes-guns-ammunition_n_5d4e3b9d...



  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 2:51pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 2:21pm:
The left likes to use taxation to harm people, or to modify behavior.


Exactly why it's so important to demand that the Constitutional limitations on the taxing power be observed!
  

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Industry
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm
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I don't think the people killing people with guns pay tax on them at all lol.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 4:24pm
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Industry wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm:
I don't think the people killing people with guns pay tax on them at all lol.
Not if they steal them, for sure!

Or were you talking about soldiers?
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 8:02pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 2:51pm:
Exactly why it's so important to demand that the Constitutional limitations on the taxing power be observed!


The constitution allows congress to tax whatever they deem necessary and proper in order to provide for the general welfare.

Hard to imagine why anyone would see that as a "limit."

  
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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2019 at 6:37am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Sep 12th, 2019 at 8:02pm:
The constitution allows congress to tax whatever they deem necessary and proper in order to provide for the general welfare.

Hard to imagine why anyone would see that as a "limit."

The limits are clearly laid out in the Constitution. All Direct taxes must be apportioned, all Indirect taxes must be uniform.
No tax has ever been discovered that does not fall into one category, or the other.

"Necessary and proper" has nothing at all to do with the taxing power or it's limits.

Congress may pass laws that are necessary and proper in order to exercise it's taxing power, but Congress may not ignore the limits on the taxing power, not even if they think it's "necessary" to do so in order to employ taxation as a political, economic, or class weapon.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2019 at 8:41am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 6:37am:
The limits are clearly laid out in the Constitution. All Direct taxes must be apportioned, all Indirect taxes must be uniform.
No tax has ever been discovered that does not fall into one category, or the other.

"Necessary and proper" has nothing at all to do with the taxing power or it's limits.

Congress may pass laws that are necessary and proper in order to exercise it's taxing power, but Congress may not ignore the limits on the taxing power, not even if they think it's "necessary" to do so in order to employ taxation as a political, economic, or class weapon.


You could argue that taxes are limited as to type. But there is no limit on amount, percent, etc.

You yourself have consistently refused to say that you would agree with an actual limit on amount or percentage. By the logic of the English language, your refusing to propose a limit means that you support unlimited taxes.


  

Snarky no more!
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yamcha
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2019 at 8:49am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 8:41am:
You could argue that taxes are limited as to type. But there is no limit on amount, percent, etc.

By the logic of the English language, your refusing to propose a limit means that you support unlimited taxes.



What the fukk is this progressive crap?  So either I am part of your solution or I am the problem? 

What about in French or Tamil?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2019 at 9:53am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 8:41am:
You could argue that taxes are limited as to type. But there is no limit on amount, percent, etc.
That's right, each category of tax has it's own limit, apportionment for Direct taxes and uniformity for Indirect taxes.



Suppose Congress wanted to raise a trillion dollars in revenue by means of a Direct tax...

Let's say the adult population of the U.S. is 250 million... Apportioning the tax, each adult in the U.S. would have to be billed $4000. There is no allowance in apportionment for rich/poor or working/not working... A single mother of four will be billed $4000, and so will Bill Gates.

As I hope you can see, the upper limit of a tax that Congress is willing to impose on a non-working 18 year old woman, or a working single mother of four will set the limit on how much Congress will be willing to tax by means of any Direct tax... It will be low.

In the case of Congress wanting to raise a trillion dollars in revenue by means of a tax on incomes (profits, rents, dividends, interest) it need only determine how much profits/rents/dividends/interest were earned in a year, and apply a percentage to that that produces the desired revenue. If the sum of those incomes is 10 trillion, a tax of 10% on each and every one of them, uniformly, will produce the desired revenue.

Uniformity does not mean that an exception will be made for Boeing, or a subsidy be granted to Tesla, it means if you had income (profit/rent/dividend/interest) you will give 10% of it to the treasury.

Any questions about how the Constitutional limits on taxation were intended to limit taxes?

They mechanism by which this will act to keep Indirect taxes low is that rich people and big corporations have a lot of influence with Congress, and those rich and powerful people will help keep Indirect taxes low for everyone.

Edit: Of course it must be decided if a tax laid on wages and salaries is a Direct tax, or an Indirect tax... I've already explained to you why a tax on wages and salaries is, in substance and effect, Direct, but I'll do it again if you want me to.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2019 at 9:58am
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 8:41am:
You yourself have consistently refused to say that you would agree with an actual limit on amount or percentage. By the logic of the English language, your refusing to propose a limit means that you support unlimited taxes.


As I hope you can tell by my explanation above, I favor strict limits on taxation.

It's a very bad idea to attempt to set some number or percentage limit on taxes. Things change, and sometimes (as perhaps in wartime) it might be necessary for Congress to raise more revenue...

Because of the requirement for apportionment for Direct taxes, those are unlikely to be raised, leaving working people with the fruits of their labor.

Indirect taxes can, in emergency situations, be made higher. Rich people and big corporations won't like it, but it will be much better than having Congress take control of the economy.
  

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