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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Taxation As A Weapon (Read 1656 times)
Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #40 - Sep 15th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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Here's some good reading for you BM:

https://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1356&context=luc_theses

You can skip Chapter 1 if you're feeling lazy or pressed for time.

You can get an idea, from the founders views on funding internal improvements, of what they thought about having any part of the Constitution being read expansively as a general power.

This is shorter:

http://www.burtfolsom.com/?p=1447

This is good too:

https://fee.org/articles/madisons-veto-sets-a-precedent/

An excerpt:

"The promoters of the bill in Congress had argued that building roads and improving rivers at federal expense would “render more easy and less expensive the means and provisions for the common defense.” Madison retorted: “To refer the power in question to the clause ‘to provide for the common defense and general welfare would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation.” He added: “Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms ‘common defense and general welfare’ embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust.”

Of course "progressives" quote this part out of context-

"... the terms ‘common defense and general welfare’ embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust.”

In order to claim that Congress has unlimited power... And Madison said so!



  

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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #41 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 7:45am
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It's not just taxation being used as a weapon, it's also targeted spending:

https://reason.com/2019/09/16/new-bill-would-tie-federal-transit-funding-to-loca...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #42 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 11:00am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 17th, 2019 at 7:45am:
It's not just taxation being used as a weapon, it's also targeted spending:

https://reason.com/2019/09/16/new-bill-would-tie-federal-transit-funding-to-loca...

California Gov. Gavin Newsom has floated the idea of tying state gas tax revenue to local housing reform.

Well, well, well.   How about that?   A corrupt governor siphoning off tax funds from gasoline Tax to pay for low-rent housing for illegals. 

That's a first.  Only it isn't.   Democrats do this all the time.

They're always getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #43 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 2:30pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 17th, 2019 at 11:00am:
California Gov. Gavin Newsom has floated the idea of tying state gas tax revenue to local housing reform.

Well, well, well.   How about that?   A corrupt governor siphoning off tax funds from gasoline Tax to pay for low-rent housing for illegals. 

That's a first.  Only it isn't.   Democrats do this all the time.

They're always getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
Republicans have been doing it for a long time too.
  

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kaz
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #44 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 13th, 2019 at 6:37am:
The limits are clearly laid out in the Constitution. All Direct taxes must be apportioned, all Indirect taxes must be uniform.
No tax has ever been discovered that does not fall into one category, or the other.

"Necessary and proper" has nothing at all to do with the taxing power or it's limits.

Congress may pass laws that are necessary and proper in order to exercise it's taxing power, but Congress may not ignore the limits on the taxing power, not even if they think it's "necessary" to do so in order to employ taxation as a political, economic, or class weapon.




Word doesn't get back to your neck of the woods quickly, huh?  The 16th amendment changed all that.  I realize it's only been ratified for 106 years.  It'll get there eventually ...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #45 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:58pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:47pm:
Word doesn't get back to your neck of the woods quickly, huh?  The 16th amendment changed all that.  I realize it's only been ratified for 106 years.  It'll get there eventually ...
Amendment XVI had warning flags all over it.

The first five words should have been enough to show what a can of worms it would become:

"The Congress shall have power. . ."

Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed.

No exceptions.

Progressives . . . can't live with 'em . . . can't shoot 'em!    Grin
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #46 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 3:02pm
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:58pm:
Amendment XVI had warning flags all over it.

The first five words should have been enough to show what a can of worms it would become:

"The Congress shall have power. . ."

Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed.

No exceptions.

Progressives . . . can't live with 'em . . . can't shoot 'em!    Grin


Yes, it was probably the third worst amendment ever after beer and Senators.  But Jeff doesn't know it was enacted
  

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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #47 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:25pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:47pm:
The 16th amendment changed all that.
Is that what some Progressive Era Supreme Court decided about it? That the 16th Amendment removed the limits on the taxing power?

What case said that? The truth is, none. SCOTUS never said that the 16th A. amended the Constitution to remove the requirement that Indirect taxes must be uniform, or the requirement that Direct taxes must be apportioned.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #48 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:27pm
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kaz wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 3:02pm:
But Jeff doesn't know it was enacted
Where did you learn all about the 16th Amendment? Wherever/whoever it was, they told you wrong.
  

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kaz
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Re: Taxation As A Weapon
Reply #49 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 6:27pm:
Where did you learn all about the 16th Amendment? Wherever/whoever it was, they told you wrong.


According to you, the 16th amendment doesn't say anything at all
  

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