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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia" (Read 2186 times)
Jeff
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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #60 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 4:06pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 3:52pm:
Even Madison understood that the militia would be self-regulated.

"To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties ...."

Here, Madison is saying that Militia officers would NOT be commissioned by the government.  Militia officers would NOT be West Point graduates.  Militia officers would be civilians. 

Madison also plainly states that the People's Militia would be opposed to the "standing Army".
in the second quote from Madison, he says the militia officers will be chosen by the state governments.

Edit: Here, I even highlighted it in red:

"...the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached and by which the militia officers are appointed..."

"Chosen from among themselves" doesn't mean that they choose them. Washington had bad experiences with that... Of Course Washington had bad experiences with militia officers chosen by their state governments too...
  

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Jeff
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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #61 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 4:07pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 3:53pm:
No, but SCOTUS has no Army of its own, so what does it matter?


I blame Lincoln and all he people who supported him.


Of course, they ruined your dream of a slave empire stretching across America.
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #62 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 5:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 4:06pm:
in the second quote from Madison, he says the militia officers will be chosen by the state governments.

Edit: Here, I even highlighted it in red:

"...the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached and by which the militia officers are appointed..."

"Chosen from among themselves" doesn't mean that they choose them. Washington had bad experiences with that... Of Course Washington had bad experiences with militia officers chosen by their state governments too...
The promise was that your militia would not be led by outsiders. Your militia would be led by local people who were known to the community.

The hope was probably that the State Legislatures would be smart enough to confer with local people about the possible choices... And why wouldn't they, State Legislators were from the communities too. Smiley
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #63 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 5:47pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 3:52pm:
Madison also plainly states that the People's Militia would be opposed to the "standing Army".
That's the worst case scenario. "Could be" would be a better expression.

Madison might, if he was alive today, be amenable to saying that the militias would oppose Homeland Security if Homeland Security started acting tyrannical. Smiley
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #64 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 5:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 4:07pm:
Of course, they ruined your dream of a slave empire stretching across America.


It was the framers who enshrined slavery in the constitution, not libertarians.

Why are dodging the fact that Madison’s false promise of state militias successfully opposing the new strong central government’s standing armies was a farce,

Never mind, I know . . .

  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #65 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 6:08pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
It was the framers who enshrined slavery in the constitution, not libertarians.


Tell the truth.

It was slavers who insisted that slavery be mentioned in the Constitution.

The libertarians of the day thought the Constitution should explicitly abolish and ban slavery. Smiley
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #66 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 6:14pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
Why are dodging the fact that Madison’s false promise of state militias successfully opposing the new strong central government’s standing armies was a farce,

Never mind, I know . . .

Nineteen of the State Militias aligned themselves with the Union Army, the other Eleven State Militias were the Confederate Army.

Who would ever expect the CSA to win?

Edit: Well, of course, dreamers like you and Jeff Davis...
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #67 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 9:24am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 16th, 2019 at 6:14pm:
Nineteen of the State Militias aligned themselves with the Union Army, the other Eleven State Militias were the Confederate Army.

Who would ever expect the CSA to win?

Edit: Well, of course, dreamers like you and Jeff Davis...


So, you admit that Madison was wrong in claiming that state militias would be able to successfully oppose union armies?


Actually, an important principle of military readiness is that an attacking force should be three times as powerful as the defending force to overcome the advantages the defender has in preparing the battleground to his favor.  So, eleven states defending against nineteen isn't such a crazy idea.  I know you like to play armchair general, but you can listen to me as a former soldier who has actually dug defensive fighting positions. 

But let's say - for the sake of argument - that those southerners were idiots who didn't understand warfare as good as Jeff does.  You say that justified burning their wives and children out of their homes and confiscating their crops to starve them?

  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #68 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 2:24pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 17th, 2019 at 9:24am:
So, you admit that Madison was wrong in claiming that state militias would be able to successfully oppose union armies?
No. If all the State Militias had opposed an army raised by Andrew Johnson for instance, Johnson wouldn't have been able to raise much of an army (because the able bodied men he would need were in the militias! Smiley), and the militias would have easily prevailed, had they been well regulated and well led.
  

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Re: How About Actually Forming "A Well-Regulated Militia"
Reply #69 - Sep 17th, 2019 at 2:26pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Sep 17th, 2019 at 9:24am:
Actually, an important principle of military readiness is that an attacking force should be three times as powerful as the defending force to overcome the advantages the defender has in preparing the battleground to his favor.
Since hardly anyone ever knew where the opposing forces were during the War to End Slavery in America, there was generally not time to prepare a battlefield.

In laying siege to rebel cities, what you say probably applies.
  

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