Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › What Would Rothbard Do?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What Would Rothbard Do? (Read 1153 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9390
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #30 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:06pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 11:01am:
I don't agree with this.

An HOA is a government.  Its a tiny republic.  The elected Board members represent the homeowners.

In our HOA meetings, before the call to order,  we have 30 minutes "open forum" where any HOA member is invited to step up to the mic and voice his/her concerns.

There's much corruption in our HOA - usually senior Board members giving themselves special perks - esp. with parking and holiday decorations.


Maybe next time you should read the bylaws before you move into an HOA community.

To call a voluntary association a "government" is so unlibertarian.   HOAs are incredibly libertarian.  Someone buys a bunch of land, creates rules, you move in you agree to the rules.  Or you don't buy there and either go somewhere with no HOA or to an HOA you like the rules
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12521
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #31 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
Maybe next time you should read the bylaws before you move into an HOA community.

There wont be a next time.

We agreed a long time ago that we're done with HOAs.   I have never heard of an HOA that wasn't rife with corruption.

kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
To call a voluntary association a "government" is so unlibertarian.   HOAs are incredibly libertarian.
Not ours.  Our HOA board members are elected by ballot.  We are like a tiny Congress.  We have power to create or change any laws we like.  Over the years, we have added many laws and restrictions to the bylaws.

We even have redistribution of wealth.   We raised HOA fees way higher than they need to be.   Some residents (renters) are exempt from parking violations.  Renters are permitted to park in the Guest Parking, but we homeowners get ticketed and fined if we park in the Guest Parking. 

Except for the HOA president.  She allows herself and hubby to use the Guest Parking.  How convenient for her.   Angry

Here's a list of bylaws for a truly libertarian HOA:

1) Don't hit others.

2) Respect other's property (don't steal, don't allow your dog(s) to defecate in your neighbor's yard.)

That's it!   
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9390
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #32 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
There wont be a next time.

We agreed a long time ago that we're done with HOAs.   I have never heard of an HOA that wasn't rife with corruption


There one was I lived in that wasn't.  The entire HOA was one side street.  There were roughly 20 houses total and we all pretty well knew each other.  It worked because it was small enough that everyone was accountable to each other.  We'd have probably 75-80% representation in HOA meetings.

But other than that, yeah, they pretty much all blow.  It's just a question of how much

SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Not ours.  Our HOA board members are elected by ballot.  We are like a tiny Congress.  We have power to create or change any laws we like.  Over the years, we have added many laws and restrictions to the bylaws


Right, the by-laws allowed them to do that.  So they didn't violate the by-laws.  It's not just reading what the by-laws say, it's reading how they can be changed.  So yes, you did agree to those by-laws.  You screwed up.  At least you realize that since you wont' do it again

SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
We even have redistribution of wealth.   We raised HOA fees way higher than they need to be.   Some residents (renters) are exempt from parking violations.  Renters are permitted to park in the Guest Parking, but we homeowners get ticketed and fined if we park in the Guest Parking. 

Except for the HOA president.  She allows herself and hubby to use the Guest Parking.  How convenient for her.   Angry


Again, you're equating a voluntarily association you chose to enter with government coercion, which is nonsense

SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Here's a list of bylaws for a truly libertarian HOA:

1) Don't hit others.

2) Respect other's property (don't steal, don't allow your dog(s) to defecate in your neighbor's yard.)

That's it!   


A "libertarian" bylaw is anything that the people voluntarily want to agree to.  Those are the rules that you want, which is fine.

But others may want people to keep their lawns mowed and free of weeds, keep the architectural styles similar, only use approved paint outside, that sort of thing.  It's COMPLETELY libertarian to go into a community and voluntarily agree to those rules in exchange for the other members buying there to agree to those rules as well.

Libertarian is all about free association.  Again, equating government force with your choice to agree to rules you didn't like is complete nonsense.  It's not a government issue or a libertarian issue, it's a you picked the wrong community issue
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 51127
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #33 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:18pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
Maybe next time you should read the bylaws before you move into an HOA community.

To call a voluntary association a "government" is so unlibertarian.   HOAs are incredibly libertarian.  Someone buys a bunch of land, creates rules, you move in you agree to the rules.  Or you don't buy there and either go somewhere with no HOA or to an HOA you like the rules
Gee Kaz, this topic was talked to death while you were gone...
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 51127
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #34 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:21pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
A "libertarian" bylaw is anything that the people voluntarily want to agree to.
Har-de-har-har.

"Let's make Kaz our slave"...

"A show of hands please?"...  "The ayes win".

"Who want's to use him first?".

Can you rationally explain how this is "libertarian"?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12521
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #35 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:46pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Here's a list of bylaws for a truly libertarian HOA:

1) Don't hit others.

2) Respect other's property (don't steal, don't allow your dog(s) to defecate in your neighbor's yard.)

That's it!   

Again, you're equating a voluntarily association you chose to enter with government coercion, which is nonsense.

A "libertarian" bylaw is anything that the people voluntarily want to agree to.  Those are the rules that you want, which is fine.
Anyone who doesn't believe that these should be the only bylaws that govern behavior in an HOA, is NOT a libertarian.


kaz wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
Libertarian is all about free association.  Again, equating government force with your choice to agree to rules you didn't like is complete nonsense.  It's not a government issue or a libertarian issue, it's a you picked the wrong community issue
Our next house will be 100% libertarian.  There will be no HOA, no bylaws (aside from NAP), no HOA Board or committee, no parking restrictions, or holiday decoration restrictions, no fines for parking in Guest Parking spaces, no HOA fees, none of any of that crapola.

It will be total freedom and liberty for all. (except trespassers)  THAT'S what libertarianism is all about. 
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 51127
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #36 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 5:06pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
Our next house will be 100% libertarian.
That's a great idea Chief.

I lived for almost six years in a house that was pretty tyrannical. It sort of wore me out...
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 51127
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #37 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 5:08pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
It will be total freedom and liberty for all. (except trespassers)
So I can shoot my quad .50 at 4:00am!

And the Council of Elders will back me up on my totally free right to shoot off whatever I want, whenever I want! Smiley Smiley Smiley

I've got an antique field howitzer with a 4" bore...

The great (fantastic) muzzle flash is wasted in the daylight, that's why I always shoot it an hour or two before dawn!

Edit: Murray is with me on this, I'm certain of it.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 12521
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #38 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 6:39pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 5:08pm:
So I can shoot my quad .50 at 4:00am!

And the Council of Elders will back me up on my totally free right to shoot off whatever I want, whenever I want! Smiley Smiley Smiley
Not exactly.

In my Libertarian house there is no Council Of Elders.  There's only the property owner, which is me. 

Inconsiderate guests will be shown the door.

If you shoot your quad .50 at 4:00am, you will no longer be a guest.   
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9390
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: What Would Rothbard Do?
Reply #39 - Oct 18th, 2019 at 6:45pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Oct 18th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
Anyone who doesn't believe that these should be the only bylaws that govern behavior in an HOA, is NOT a libertarian.



So someone who joins a HOA that requires lawns be maintained and approval for architectural changes and paint colors for the consistency of the neighborhood because that's what they want ... someone who finds a HOA with those terms and voluntarily agrees to it ... isn't a libertarian no matter what they think government should be allowed to do.

That's profoundly ignorant.  Libertarian is a government philosophy, not a life philosophy.  I want small government so I can make my own choices.  Neither you nor government can legitimately tell me what my choices can or can't be.  Though in the end, I agree with most of your choices.  I'm not a joiner ..
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › What Would Rothbard Do?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy