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roycarn
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A libertarian case for climate action?
Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:09pm
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There are many libertarians tha deny climate change is happening. There are even more still that accept climate change is happening but refuse to admit humanity's responsibility. The most common reason is that climate change requires a bigger government to address. This is false. Individual and voluntary collective action will be and are an important tools to address the issue. Eliminating government involvement should not get in the way of voluntary action like entrepreneurial innovation, environmental cooperatives etc.

I'm making the point however that climate change does  warrant government action. The argument is simple; climate risks like droughts, floods, hurricanes, and rising sea levels impose additional financial risks to those affected. The reason for this is that the libertarian case for pollution control involves not harming others without their consent, so too are ranchers, coastal sea dwellers etc. affected.

The most practical solution would be a cap and trade permit system that would encourage the most efficient companies to earn the most profit from unused credits. On top of this, there could be an additional GHG tax on fuels, agriculture etc. All of the money would be used to lower sales or corporate taxes, which would ultimately be a net benefit to society.

What are you're thoughts on this?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:33pm
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I'm in the camp of people that acknowledge climate change is happening, and real, but these changes are natural, and not man-made.

We've only been monitoring global temperatures since the 1860s, which is a very short period of time in the big scheme of things.

Who's to say that global temperatures don't rise and fall every 200 years?

Climate might be cyclical, and we just happen to be in up-swing part of the cycle.

There have numerous doomsday predictions about climate and world population in the past 50 years.  Not ONE of them have come to pass.

Now that idiot AOC said  "...the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

In 11 years we will laugh at her and mock her but hopefully by then she'll be back mixing drinks at the local pub in Queens.

The government needs to stay out of this.  Government screws up everything it touches.  That's not ever going to change.

"Our Founders never intended for Americans to trust their government. Our entire Constitution was predicated on the notion that government was a necessary evil to be restrained and minimized as much as possible." - Rand Paul

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done at the expense of the liberty of the governed."  - SkyChief
  
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Jeff
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:45pm
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roycarn wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:09pm:
There are many libertarians tha deny climate change is happening.

Citation needed.
  

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Jeff
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:46pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:33pm:
We've only been monitoring global temperatures since the 1860s, which is a very short period of time in the big scheme of things.

Who's to say that global temperatures don't rise and fall every 200 years?

Many of the cycles are well known from historical evidence. I don't think any of them run on 200 year schedules.
  

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Jeff
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:48pm
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roycarn wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:09pm:
...environmental cooperatives...
What are they?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #5 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:46pm:
Many of the cycles are well known from historical evidence. I don't think any of them run on 200 year schedules.
Citation needed.
  
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Jeff
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:06pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:54pm:
Citation needed.
Google "Solar cycles". That will be a start.

There is a 120,000 year cycle involved too. Probably if you Google "120,000 year climate cycles", you can learn a bit more.

There isn't enough evidence currently to call continental drift cyclical. Not in my opinion anyway...

Try Googling "Ice core evidence" and "ocean sediment evidence". That should help you out too. Smiley
  

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roycarn
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:10pm
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SkyChief wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:33pm:
I'm in the camp of people that acknowledge climate change is happening, and real, but these changes are natural, and not man-made.

We've only been monitoring global temperatures since the 1860s, which is a very short period of time in the big scheme of things.

Who's to say that global temperatures don't rise and fall every 200 years?

Climate might be cyclical, and we just happen to be in up-swing part of the cycle.

There have numerous doomsday predictions about climate and world population in the past 50 years.  Not ONE of them have come to pass.

Now that idiot AOC said  "...the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

In 11 years we will laugh at her and mock her but hopefully by then she'll be back mixing drinks at the local pub in Queens.

The government needs to stay out of this.  Government screws up everything it touches.  That's not ever going to change.

"Our Founders never intended for Americans to trust their government. Our entire Constitution was predicated on the notion that government was a necessary evil to be restrained and minimized as much as possible." - Rand Paul

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done at the expense of the liberty of the governed."  - SkyChief


Try skepticalscience.com. You'll find a summary of all the *Real* evidence for climate change, form people who have spent their careers looking into. The consensus is pretty clear, and it resists simplification unless ofc the public is willfully ignorant about the issue. "Cycles" for one are due to local differences in temperature rather than global warming trends, and the alternative is steadily increasing GHGs.

https://skepticalscience.com/1500-year-natural-cycle.htm
  
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Jeff
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:14pm
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roycarn wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:10pm:
Try skepticalscience.com. You'll find a summary of all the *Real* evidence for climate change, form people who have spent their careers looking into. The consensus is pretty clear, and it resists simplification unless ofc the public is willfully ignorant about the issue.
on the issue.
There isn't a consensus.

Perhaps you are being willfully ignorant of that?

The Earth's climate does resist simplification, of that we can be sure. It's why climate models are currently useless.

Edit: BTW, I think the link you posted is crap.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:06pm:
Probably if you Google "120,000 year climate cycles", you can learn a bit more.

There isn't enough evidence currently to call continental drift cyclical. Not in my opinion anyway...

Try Googling "Ice core evidence" and "ocean sediment evidence". That should help you out too. Smiley
To be honest, I'm not interested in "120,000 year climate cycles".  I'm interested in shorter cold-warm cycles that occur on approximately 200 to 1,500 year time scales.
  
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