Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › A libertarian case for climate action?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A libertarian case for climate action? (Read 1414 times)
yamcha
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1518
Location: Southern California
Joined: Jul 5th, 2019
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #10 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 8:24pm
Print Post  
Climate change, global warming, global cooling are natural.  There are ice ages, tropical ages, and mini ice and tropical ages in between.  All-natural.  Because of more carbon emissions from factories and cars, the world is greener now than it ever has been.

We need more Ford Expedition Max XLT 4x4s on the road and Ford Expeditions too!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11881
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #11 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:13pm
Print Post  
yamcha wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 8:24pm:
Climate change, global warming, global cooling are natural.  There are ice ages, tropical ages, and mini ice and tropical ages in between.  All-natural.  Because of more carbon emissions from factories and cars, the world is greener now than it ever has ever been!

And this is what is causing GreenHouse Gases causing the rise in global temperatures and melting the icecaps causing flooding in coastal regions which increases CO2 becaose of the algae, which causes even more oxygen production from rain forests whiich increas the temperature even more!!

NO WONDER ITS SO FUKCIN HOT EVERYWHERE!!   Angry

Why won't you damn libertarians just admit it?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yamcha
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1518
Location: Southern California
Joined: Jul 5th, 2019
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #12 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:33pm
Print Post  
Last winter was cold as hell in Socal.

Back in the early 70s, my parents were turned off from the idea of buying some property in Balboa because the fukks said it the area would soon be underwater all the way to Santa Ana.  None of this shit is happening. 

Chief, you remember back when they predicted that California would split into the ocean because of the San Andreas faultline coming apart or something like that?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11881
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #13 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:42pm
Print Post  
yamcha wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:33pm:
 

Chief, you remember back when they predicted that California would split into the ocean because of the San Andreas faultline coming apart or something like that?
Indeed, I remember that very well.  The folks out in Riverside and Bakersfield boasted they would have oceanfront properties when the "Big One" hit.

But they're still as land-locked as they ever were, aren't they?   Grin   Grin   Grin

What a bunch of hooey.  I don't believe any of that malarkey.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 47949
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 8:00am
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:13pm:
And this is what is causing GreenHouse Gases causing the rise in global temperatures and melting the icecaps causing flooding in coastal regions which increases CO2 becaose of the algae, which causes even more oxygen production from rain forests whiich increas the temperature even more!!

NO WONDER ITS SO FUKCIN HOT EVERYWHERE!!   Angry

Why won't you damn libertarians just admit it?
Rational people understand that the earth's climate is affected by things more powerful than emissions of carbon dioxide by humans. Rational people also understand that there is no scientific certainty that increased levels of carbon dioxide actually cause warming.

Any rational person should also understand that China, and India, and Indonesia aren't going to stop carbon dioxide production soon enough to save the world if the doomsayers are correct, so, why should Americans cripple our economy during the final years of human life on earth?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2656
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #15 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 11:59am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 7:14pm:
There isn't a consensus.

Perhaps you are being willfully ignorant of that?

The Earth's climate does resist simplification, of that we can be sure. It's why climate models are currently useless.

Edit: BTW, I think the link you posted is crap.
There is actually a consensus among scientists who actually study climate.  Sure, there isn't among those that study weather, engineering, etc but there is a clear consensus among climate scientists that the Earth is heating up largely due to human produced CO2 and methane.

Sure, there's a broad range of predictions regarding the maximum effects on temperature, environmental impact, and economic impact but there is negligible dissent on whether its actually happening.

CO2 has been understood to act as a green house gas for roughly a century.  Various scientists have been predicted a global temperature rise since the 50s with a consensus reached by the 80s.  The global average temperatures are on the rise matching that basic prediction. 


@RoyCarn, personally I favor eliminating subsidies for carbon based industries and imposing a greenhouse gas tax rather than a cap and trade and I generally attempt to reduce my carbon output as long as its not overly inconvenient.  I think you will otherwise only find various forms of denial on this forum though.

It doesn't help that the left hypes the worst case scenarios and still clings to the nonsense of Paul Ehrlich and the Club of Rome as though they were actually right.  They've played chicken little to often.  Not to mention that their solution to every problem is central planning and nationalization.  Just look at AOC's Green New Deal.  It would do nothing for the environment but it would remake the economy into a socialist dystopia.

@ yamcha, Please find a siesmologist or geologist that was actually predicting CA would split of from the continent.  That was the stuff of SciFi and morning talk television.  You are confusing pop culture nonsense with science. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 47949
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #16 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 1:13pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 11:59am:
There is actually a consensus among scientists who actually study climate.
No, there isn't.

Even if there was, it wouldn't be a consensus based on science, because there is no science that shows causation produced by Carbon dioxide. It only shows correlation, and only if you choose the time frames carefully.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 47949
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #17 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 1:15pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 11:59am:
CO2 has been understood to act as a green house gas for roughly a century.
And the first modeling predicted a cooling effect. When that didn't seem to be happening, the models were adjusted to show a warming effect.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2656
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #18 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 2:20pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 1:13pm:
No, there isn't.

Even if there was, it wouldn't be a consensus based on science, because there is no science that shows causation produced by Carbon dioxide. It only shows correlation, and only if you choose the time frames carefully.
There doesn't need to be science showing causation, however, there is.  CO2 and Methane have been shown to produce green house effects by trapping heat.   There is more CO2 and Methane in the atmosphere now, largely due to human production.  Temperatures have been shown to be rising, at least recently.  The observations are consistent with predictions.


Jeff wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
And the first modeling predicted a cooling effect. When that didn't seem to be happening, the models were adjusted to show a warming effect.

Because that's how science works.  Unlike faith, science generally follows the evidence. 

Aside from that, in the 70s, it was thought that increased particulate matter would cause cooling  while CO2 would cause warming, the debate was about which would dominate.  The evidence is now in, CO2 has dominated.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 47949
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: A libertarian case for climate action?
Reply #19 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:46pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 2:20pm:
Temperatures have been shown to be rising, at least recently.  The observations are consistent with predictions.
Temperature acquisition is faulty. It's come to be producing mostly misleading readings.

You can't make good predictions with erroneous information, especially if you use it to make unfounded assumptions.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › A libertarian case for climate action?
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy