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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How is this Murder? (Read 578 times)
Jeff
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #10 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:20pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:17pm:
The old man shot the trespasser as he was fleeing the scene.   That was NOT a justified shooting.   Not even close.

It was murder, and the old man will be charged with murder.
So, he missed the first time, and should have stopped shooting when the guy turned and ran.

But that's just his story, that the guy approached him with a pickax...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #11 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:20pm:
So, he missed the first time, and should have stopped shooting when the guy turned and ran.

But that's just his story, that the guy approached him with a pickax...
That's speculation.  Meyer clearly lied to police.   He said he fired twice.

More than one witnesses distinctly heard three gunshots.

Also, Meyer cleaned up the crime scene before investigators arrived - they couldn't find any spent shell casings where Meyer said he fired his handgun.

Meyer won't walk away from this killing.  He will go to prison.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Little Big Man
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #12 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 3:57pm
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Jeff wrote Today at 1:20pm:
Quote:
So, he missed the first time, and should have stopped shooting when the guy turned and ran.

But that's just his story, that the guy approached him with a pickax...


SkyChief wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:41pm:
That's speculation.  Meyer clearly lied to police.   He said he fired twice.


Oh, my Gawd, Chief!

He "clearly lied?"  A seventy-two year old man didn't keep correct count of his shots in the heat of a confrontation with an armed burglar and you call that a "lie?"

Quote:
More than one witnesses distinctly heard three gunshots.


But they "clearly lied" because Meyer said he fired twice.

Or maybe they heard an echo.  Or, again, maybe Meyer simply did not think the exact number was important.

Quote:
Also, Meyer cleaned up the crime scene before investigators arrived - they couldn't find any spent shell casings where Meyer said he fired his handgun.


He picked up his shell casings.  I do that every time I shoot at the range.  I never realized I had "cleaned up the crime scene."

Quote:
Meyer won't walk away from this killing.  He will go to prison.


Just out of curiosity, what is your theory as to motive?

I hope this is one of your sarcastic posts, Chief.  If so, hats off for having me going.

But, you're not the only one.  I think I'm dreaming.  I had to keep checking to see that I had not stumbled onto the "We Love the Nanny State" forum.

Maybe, after an investigation, they might get an indictment in which case that would be the time to arrest him.  Just arresting him in case his story is later determined to be false is absurd.   




  

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SkyChief
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #13 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 4:39pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 3:57pm:
I hope this is one of your sarcastic posts, Chief.  If so, hats off for having me going.

You caught me.   Grin    Smiley

However, my prediction #023 stands:

"Meyer will be convicted of a lesser offense - possibly second degree murder, or voluntary manslaughter."

That fatal gunshot wound in the back of Pickaxe man's neck is gonna be hard to explain.

Was Meyer going for a head-shot and his aim was low, or was Meyer going for a center-of-bodymass shot and his aim was high?  Or did he actually aim for the neck?

These will be important questions in the trial.
  

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Jeff
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #14 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:14pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 1:41pm:
That's speculation.  Meyer clearly lied to police.   He said he fired twice.

More than one witnesses distinctly heard three gunshots.

Also, Meyer cleaned up the crime scene before investigators arrived - they couldn't find any spent shell casings where Meyer said he fired his handgun.

Meyer won't walk away from this killing.  He will go to prison.
Yes, anytime you shoot someone in the back, things should go badly for you... Other than in times of war. Then, it's what you often should do.

Edit: jerkwad won't be able to figure this out under any interpretation of the NAP it understands...
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #15 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:57pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:14pm:
Yes, anytime you shoot someone in the back, things should go badly for you...


Your next sentence:

Quote:
Other than in times of war. Then, it's what you often should do.


Right.

Because in "times of war," a fleeing enemy can easily double back and attack again. 

The same applied here. 

You remind me of those people who wanted to hang our soldiers for shooting back when fired on from a building that had women and children in it being used as human shields by the enemy or shooting an enemy who was playing dead instead of accepting the chance to surrender.

  

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Jeff
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #16 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 6:38pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:57pm:
Your next sentence:


Right.

Because in "times of war," a fleeing enemy can easily double back and attack again. 

The same applied here. 
The story was he dropped the pickax before he fled...

You think he was running off to get an RPG or something?

It was a case of common theft, not war.
  

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yamcha
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #17 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 8:19pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 11:25am:
What leads you to believe Pick-axe man is black?

You are right.  If he was a Negro Or meskin then it would be ALL over the news.  He was probably a White drug addict.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #18 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 9:53pm
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It's murder because self-defence does not give you permission to kill people who are running away from you.

They're running away. You are no longer defending. They are fleeing and you are attacking.

When and if they double back and attack you, then you may defend.

Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:14pm:
Yes, anytime you shoot someone in the back, things should go badly for you... Other than in times of war. Then, it's what you often should do.

Edit: jerkwad won't be able to figure this out under any interpretation of the NAP it understands...


You're right, I can't. But I can accept the correct position, even though I don't fully understand it. I've also read more of the literature on the subject than anyone else on the forum, and I'm aware that Rothbard agrees with you.

Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:57pm:
Because in "times of war," a fleeing enemy can easily double back and attack again. 

The same applied here. 


No, it doesn't. Those enemy soldiers have been hired specifically to kill you, probably face severe consequences if they abandon their duty, and you're well aware that they won't reasonably just run away and leave you alone.

War is an ultra-specific situation where self-defence and reasonability might support your interpretation.

Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 5:57pm:
You remind me of those people who wanted to hang our soldiers for shooting back when fired on from a building that had women and children in it being used as human shields by the enemy or shooting an enemy who was playing dead instead of accepting the chance to surrender.


When you shoot through a human shield, do you think you're innocent of aggression against that human shield?

Go read.

https://mises.org/library/right-self-defense

This article covers most everything you might want to know about self-defence and its limitations.

Quote:
In short, the burden of proof that the aggression has really begun must be on the person who employs the defensive violence.


/thread
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #19 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 10:13pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 9:53pm:
When you shoot through a human shield, do you think you're innocent of aggression against that human shield?


Who cares?  When you shoot a guy who has a gun up to your head, do you care if you are innocent of murder or not?  Who cares?
  
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