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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How is this Murder? (Read 654 times)
The Opposition
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #20 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 10:24pm
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yamcha wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 10:13pm:
Who cares?  When you shoot a guy who has a gun up to your head, do you care if you are innocent of murder or not?  Who cares?


I certainly care whether I am guilty of wrongdoing or not.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #21 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 10:36pm
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Would you be innocent if you murdered yourself?
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #22 - Oct 2nd, 2019 at 9:52am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 6:38pm:
The story was he dropped the pickax before he fled...

You think he was running off to get an RPG or something?


"Or something," yes. 

Was he going to get a gun, a knife, a can of gasoline or a couple of comrades? 

Who knows? 

Maybe he was just running to start filling out job applications, he having had the epiphany that crime does not pay.  That would be great, right? 

If I'm Mr. Meyer, I'm not going to bet my life on that best case scenario.
  

Snarky no more!
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The Opposition
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #23 - Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:04am
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 9:52am:
"Or something," yes. 

Was he going to get a gun, a knife, a can of gasoline or a couple of comrades? 

Who knows? 

Maybe he was just running to start filling out job applications, he having had the epiphany that crime does not pay.  That would be great, right? 

If I'm Mr. Meyer, I'm not going to bet my life on that best case scenario.


Well you have to. If it's a bet, you're not sure, and if you're not sure, you can't self-defend.

When can you self-defend? *shakes 8-ball*

When aggression is palpable, immediate, and clear.

The article I linked proves that. Is the article wrong?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Big Man
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #24 - Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:46am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:04am:
Well you have to. If it's a bet, you're not sure, and if you're not sure, you can't self-defend.


It was not a bet when Mr. Meyer shot the intruder; it was a refusal to bet.  By ending the threat, he avoided wagering his life on the proposition that the threat was not real or would not be carried out. 

Quote:
When can you self-defend? *shakes 8-ball*

When aggression is palpable, immediate, and clear.

The article I linked proves that. Is the article wrong?


Well, I disagree with it, so in my opinion it is wrong. 

But that's my opinion only.


  

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Jeff
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #25 - Oct 2nd, 2019 at 3:03pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 9:52am:
"Or something," yes. 

Was he going to get a gun, a knife, a can of gasoline or a couple of comrades? 

Who knows? 

Maybe he was just running to start filling out job applications, he having had the epiphany that crime does not pay.  That would be great, right? 

If I'm Mr. Meyer, I'm not going to bet my life on that best case scenario.
You want to change the law, so that you can shoot people because they might threaten you in the future.
  

"Free hate speech"
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The Opposition
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #26 - Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:06pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:46am:
It was not a bet when Mr. Meyer shot the intruder; it was a refusal to bet.  By ending the threat, he avoided wagering his life on the proposition that the threat was not real or would not be carried out. 


He had no way to be sure the intruder would attack. He bet that the intruder was going to attack. He lost that bet, and he will rightly be punished.

Little Big Man wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:46am:
Well, I disagree with it, so in my opinion it is wrong. 

But that's my opinion only.


What about it do you disagree with?

I used to want the kind of world you're proposing when I was a Statist. I used to think that it was ridiculous to impose upon the law-abiding to protect a criminal.

I used to think that the criminal is already vastly advantaged because he will behave in ways a law-abiding person will not, and that since we want a world where the law-abiding is advantaged over the criminal, the law must impose disadvantages on criminals that outweigh the advantages they gain from breaking the law.

My beliefs have been hammered into a fine pulp by pure jeering and I no longer believe any of that nonsense. All I want is to be a libertarian.

That means I must consider the rights of others. Criminals have oodles and oodles of rights.

Jeff wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 3:03pm:
You want to change the law, so that you can shoot people because they might threaten you in the future.


I certainly don't. I know that would be aggression. It frankly disgusts me that someone would propose something so tyrannical.

Mere risk is not grounds to act against another.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #27 - Oct 3rd, 2019 at 6:59am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 2nd, 2019 at 10:06pm:
Mere risk is not grounds to act against another.
If you risk immediate physical danger by not acting, it is grounds to defend yourself.
  

"Free hate speech"
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kaz
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #28 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 3:16pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 11:10am:
The trespasser has a right to live.  Even when trespassing.

If the Axe-Man had forced his way into the house, the old man would have been justified in shooting pick-axe-Man. Even WITHOUT a verbal warning.

That's the premise of the "Castle Doctrine". It allows a person to use deadly force against an intruder (who forces entry into the house).

What if Pick-axe-man was an illegal alien, didn't speak English, and didn't understand the command to drop his Pick-axe?

What if he was just a Mexican looking to borrow a sharpening stone or a bench grinder?

He deserves to die?       In California, we value our illegals.

That seems to be the case, here. 

Police officers arrived to find the deceased male lying facedown in the park behind Meyer's home with a gunshot wound to the BACK of his neck, Dallas police said.

The murder charge is appropriate if old man shot him as pickaxe Man fled.  It appears that he did.


He should have called the police after the shooting.  I do have a big issue with that he didn't so the police could investigate.  I agree, someone being on your property not breaking into the house or posing any other threat isn't sufficient justification to kill them.  He should have called the police right away so they could figure out what happened when the evidence was fresh.  Had he done that, I'd also be more inclined to believe him if there is any doubt
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: How is this Murder?
Reply #29 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 3:19pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 10:17am:
The homeowner had no way to know the intruders intent.

Arresting people for murder of a burglar is absurd.  If an investigation showed that the homeowner knew the man and had reason to want him dead, bring him in for questioning or ask the DA to look into charges.

What’s very fishy to me is that police want us to believe that they really think a guy lived as a law abiding taxpayer for 72 years and then suddenly broke bad.  Thinking the burglar got away and not calling the police because they aren’t gonna do anything anyway sounds like a mistake an old man would make.

He wasn’t mistaken in thinking police would not catch the burglar. That burglar would be casing his next house right now if not for that lucky shot. His mistake was thinking that police understand or care about the right to self-defense.  His mistake was not cowering in his home waiting an hour for ineffectual cops to take a report.

These days police are as likely to have a man bun and a unicorn tattoo as to respect the law-abiding.


Kind of a risky position for a guy who claims to cut across people's yards because government won't give you an airplane and you won't use the government roads, you just "cut across" them.   So people are free to take target practice when you go to work?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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