Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax (Read 996 times)
Little Biq Man
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 952
Joined: Mar 17th, 2019
The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:06pm
Print Post  
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-rich-kids-are-so-good-at-the-marshmallow-...

The Marshmallow Test was a psychological study conducted from the sixties through the eighties.  Children were given a single marshmallow with the promise that if they did not eat it right away, they would get a second marshmallow in fifteen minutes.  It was intended as a measure of understanding of the concept of delayed gratification.  Through the next two and a half decades, the researchers tracked the subjects' success academically and in employment and found that the children who were able to wait succeeded significantly more than children who did not wait.

But a new study, that tracked kids by socio-economic status at the time they took the test shows that within similar SES groups, there was no difference in success rates between the kids who delayed gratification and those who did not.  The new researchers hypothesize that socio-economic status is the determining factor in whether a child waits to "double up" before eating the offered treat:

The failed replication of the marshmallow test does more than just debunk the earlier notion; it suggests other possible explanations for why poorer kids would be less motivated to wait for that second marshmallow. For them, daily life holds fewer guarantees: There might be food in the pantry today, but there might not be tomorrow, so there is a risk that comes with waiting. And even if their parents promise to buy more of a certain food, sometimes that promise gets broken out of financial necessity.

The lesson for us is not to rely on social science studies to prop up our advocacy of freedom.  The earlier study has been used as evidence that character, not inequality of opportunity, is the reason some people succeed and some do not.

Yes, freedom does lead to greater economic success for most than non-freedom.  But, we shouldn't over-rely on that kind of results-based argument.  Freedom for its own sake is argument enough.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11652
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #1 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:12pm
Print Post  
I would think the non-replicability is because the world has changed, not because the original study was bunk.

I would hypothesise that in another fifty years, you could do the same experiment and children who will eat the marshmallow right away will be the ones who succeed more.

Quote:
The new researchers hypothesize that socio-economic status is the determining factor in whether a child waits to "double up" before eating the offered treat


You could just as easily say that the tendency toward instant gratification was the cause and the poverty was the result. As if it's not heritable. Pfft.

All the new one really proves is that mobility has lessened. People who start poor don't have the opportunity to be un-poor through good behaviour. If the opportunity exists, it's probably only there fore cheaters.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #2 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:33pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
I would think the non-replicability is because the world has changed, not because the original study was bunk.

I would hypothesise that in another fifty years, you could do the same experiment and children who will eat the marshmallow right away will be the ones who succeed more.


In a state of anarchy, where there is no stable rule of law, eating your marshmallow before someone steals it makes sense.

Probably also in a totalitarian state where the government claims to own everything, if somebody gives you a marshmallow, it's probably a black market illicit marshmallow, and you'd better eat it before you get caught with it. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #3 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:35pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
You could just as easily say that the tendency toward instant gratification was the cause and the poverty was the result.
That's certainly true to a large degree. You spend all your money as fast as you get it on toys and fun, while I save some of mine and invest it... I'll probably be more successful.

I think its more learned behavior than heritable.

Edit: Of course if your government punishes you for saving and investing, and encourages you to borrow and spend, you'll learn to borrow and spend.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Little Biq Man
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 952
Joined: Mar 17th, 2019
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #4 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
I would think the non-replicability is because the world has changed, not because the original study was bunk.

I would hypothesise that in another fifty years, you could do the same experiment and children who will eat the marshmallow right away will be the ones who succeed more.



You may well be right.  The information age has made delayed gratification less important in terms of success and the fact that children are now raised primarily by the devices their parents give them rather than the parents themselves means that delayed gratification is an extremely difficult to teach concept to a child conditioned to expect instant gratification at all times.

If companies adjust their business models to accommodate that need for instant gratification, those who practice delayed gratification may only be allowing themselves to be left behind.

Quote:
You could just as easily say that the tendency toward instant gratification was the cause and the poverty was the result. As if it's not heritable. Pfft.

All the new one really proves is that mobility has lessened. People who start poor don't have the opportunity to be un-poor through good behaviour. If the opportunity exists, it's probably only there fore cheaters.


Another valid way to look at the results.

The immorality of cheating I would put in direct proportion to the rules cheated on.  The Dems are in full cry over the idea that Trump cheated on his taxes.  If he did, who did he cheat except those who sought - under the rules - to rob him at gunpoint?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #5 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:18pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
You may well be right.
Would that be a first?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #6 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:25pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
If companies adjust their business models to accommodate that need for instant gratification, those who practice delayed gratification may only be allowing themselves to be left behind.
My advice is to delay some gratification with an eye on the future...

But, as I mentioned, if your government punishes you for thinking ahead, you might as well have a good time now. Smiley

Especially since St. Greta has told us it's all over in twelve years...

And who could doubt her, seeing that Algore is flying her around the world on her world comeback tour. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #7 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:26pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
The immorality of cheating I would put in direct proportion to the rules cheated on.
According to science?

Premeditated murder is worse than stealing bubble gum? That's been proven?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 11652
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #8 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm
Print Post  
Little Biq Man wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
You may well be right.  The information age has made delayed gratification less important in terms of success and the fact that children are now raised primarily by the devices their parents give them rather than the parents themselves means that delayed gratification is an extremely difficult to teach concept to a child conditioned to expect instant gratification at all times.

If companies adjust their business models to accommodate that need for instant gratification, those who practice delayed gratification may only be allowing themselves to be left behind.


It's the cost of the no-fail society. People don't die (or even lose the opportunity to breed) from bad decisions.

With minimum wage earners saving their every penny at still ending up at the very bottom, the trend the first study found is going to reverse quick.

But there's a breaking point. If too many people always pick immediate gratification, there will be no one to hold up the framework of society.

Little Biq Man wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 6:55pm:
The immorality of cheating I would put in direct proportion to the rules cheated on.  The Dems are in full cry over the idea that Trump cheated on his taxes.  If he did, who did he cheat except those who sought - under the rules - to rob him at gunpoint?


Do you really want to ask someone with my IQ that question? If you're even a little above average, you can see the answer yourself.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 49465
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Reply #9 - Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:43pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Oct 6th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
Do you really want to ask someone with my IQ that question?
Speaking for myself, I don't see any sense in asking questions of stupid people. Kiss
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Marshmallow Test: Part Dueax
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy