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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) No libertarians agree on what is libertarian (Read 2085 times)
SkyChief
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #260 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 9:40am
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kaz wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 9:17am:
One thing the bible got right was tithing.  People will gladly pay up to 10% of their income to help others.  It's in our DNA that 10% is fair.  People don't avoid taxes when they are below 10% basically at all...
Libertarians don't want to pay ANY income Tax.

Income Tax enables government to redistribute wealth.   Redistribution is a classic sign that gov't has grown too large, and has too much power.

A government that taxes its citizens by coercion needs to be scaled down.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #261 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 10:32am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 9:40am:
Libertarians don't want to pay ANY income Tax.

Income Tax enables government to redistribute wealth.   Redistribution is a classic sign that gov't has grown too large, and has too much power.

A government that taxes its citizens by coercion needs to be scaled down.


First of all, you know we agree on that, so I'm not sure why the lecture.  Sort of an aha, I got you!

Second, no one said "income tax" here except you.  I said, "people will gladly pay up to 10% of their income to help others."  Then I made a general reference to "taxes."  What we tax and how is a different discussion than the point I was making.  But no matter how the money is taxed, I look at my taxes as a percent of my income.  Don't you???  I said that is a number that is built into our DNA.  I didn't say it's specifically a coerced direct tax on income.  I said in aggregate how much we are willing to pay.

I did make the point that government taxing income at higher rates yields no more money, but that isn't an advocacy of taxing income directly at 10%
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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SkyChief
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #262 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 10:59am
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kaz wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 10:32am:
What we tax and how is a different discussion than the point I was making.  But no matter how the money is taxed, I look at my taxes as a percent of my income.  Don't you???  I said that is a number that is built into our DNA.  I didn't say it's specifically a coerced direct tax on income.
Maybe your DNA.  Grin

My DNA says


kaz wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 10:32am:
  I said in aggregate how much we are willing to pay.

I did make the point that government taxing income at higher rates yields no more money, but that isn't an advocacy of taxing income directly at 10%

I make a distinction between indirect (sales, tariffs, use) taxes and direct (income, property) taxes.

I tolerate indirect taxes.  Direct taxes need to be abolished.   Over taxation enables gov't to redistribute and spend recklessly.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #263 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 9:03am:
It is estimated that people will tolerate taxes up to 60% before revolting, so we have a ways to go.   
Who made that estimate?

What is it now? Over 50% if you include federal, state, local, and all the fees and surcharges?
  

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Jeff
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #264 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:31pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 10:59am:
I make a distinction between indirect (sales, tariffs, use) taxes and direct (income, property) taxes.

Taxes on incomes are Indirect Chief. Taxes on wages, salaries, and other property are Direct.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #265 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
Who made that estimate?

What is it now? Over 50% if you include federal, state, local, and all the fees and surcharges?

That is my estimate.  Portugal has a 61% income tax rate.   These people are very unhappy.

Other countries with outrageous Tax rates;

Slovenia. . . . . . . .61%

Denmark. . . . . . . 56%

Finland. . . . . . . . .57%

Belgium . . . . . . . .58%

https://www.investopedia.com/incometax/which-countries-have-highest-taxes-high-i...
  

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Jeff
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #266 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:58pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
That is my estimate.  Portugal has a 61% income tax rate.   These people are very unhappy.

According to you, they should be in a state of revolt.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #267 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 3:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Taxes on incomes are Indirect Chief. Taxes on wages, salaries, and other property are Direct.

Wrong.   A Tax on income is a DIRECT tax.

Learn about Direct Taxes here:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/directtax.asp
  

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ahhell
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #268 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 3:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 3:03pm:
Wrong.   A Tax on income is a DIRECT tax.

Learn about Direct Taxes here:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/directtax.asp


Chief, I think you need to figure out what Jeff thinks income means.  Most folks think income includes things like wages and salaries, Jeff does not.

Jeff wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Taxes on incomes are Indirect Chief. Taxes on wages, salaries, and other property are Direct.
  
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kaz
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Re: No libertarians agree on what is libertarian
Reply #269 - Nov 12th, 2019 at 3:56pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 12th, 2019 at 3:35pm:
Chief, I think you need to figure out what Jeff thinks income means.  Most folks think income includes things like wages and salaries, Jeff does not.



Jeff made up his own definition for incomes?  No surprise there
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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