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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech (Read 1382 times)
kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #10 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 2:04pm:
Since Trump's inauguration, there was a push from the left to censor speech from the right.

A year later, conservatives began demanding censorship on socialist propaganda by the left.

College campuses and Universities banned conservative speakers like Ben Shapiro, Michelle Malkin, and Ann Coulter et al.

Facebook bans pro-Trump people.

The ACLU traditionally championed free speech in the past, but they are mysteriously silent recently.

When Kapernick took a knee during the National Anthem, Trump said  "Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out! He's fired - He's fired!"

Trump repeatedly called leftist news outlets like CNN and MSNBC "Fake news".  He shut down all White House news conferences because of CNN's WH journalist Jim Acosta.

A group called Unite the Right was denied a permit for a gathering in Charlottesville.  Who shut it down?  The ACLU! 


Jim Acosta was part of it.  But he's only the biggest one.  There were lots of leftists there for self promotion.   Trump has been having lots of press conferences, he just has it another way.

So that's a really weak argument on Republicans are censoring free speech.

You're arguing Trump does not have free speech to criticize Kaepernick.  Nowhere did he propose government involvement or violence to shut down Kapernick.

And you're arguing compelled speech that Trump is required to speak to reporters in the way you want him to even when they're there to showboat and write books about it.

And you compared that to leftist violent shutdown of conservatives speaking?

Boooooooo, that's really, really weak
  

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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #11 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:41pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 2:20pm:
You're mixing in examples of free-market shutdowns of speech with government action. They are not at all equivalent.

It's rather ironic, but...

It's the Left, and their big money, that allows their lot to do it the right way, and use the free market to accomplish their goals.

It's the Right, and their working-class Everyman with no disposable income, but the numbers of votes, who runs to the gun of government.

This is not me wanting a rule, this is the result of me applying the rules I was given without applying emotion.


Leftists trying to shut down speech with violence is free market and Trump criticizing Kaepernick and not having press conferences is government guns.

This is you using unemotional logic.  Yeah ....
  

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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #12 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:43pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 2:50pm:
I'm just pointing out that both parties want to stifle free speech.   And the ACLU is strangely silent, which suggests they might have a dog in the fight.

Last July, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer strongly supported Senator Tom Udall's proposal to amend the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech.

Schumer and Udall do not like to hear opposing views, so they want to stifle them.

House Speaker Pelosi has also shown interest in amending the 1st Amendment.


You don't understand the bill of rights at all. The bill of rights is a limit on government power.

Trump expressing his own view of Kaepernick is PROTECTED by free speech, not restricted.  Nowhere has Trump tried or even proposed to get government power involved in it.

And that you think free speech compels speech in the form of press conferences in a conference room rather than by a helicopter is just completely whacked.

I'm surprised with this logic you didn't bring up that Trump had the government stop buying the NYT and Washington Compost.  I mean isn't government not buying papers for its employees restricting freedom of the press?  I hope you know that was sarcastic
  

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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #13 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:47pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:11pm:
I couldn't find the verbatim amendments, but basically the first section of the Udall-Schumer amendment would give Congress and the states the Power to "set reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by candidates and others to influence elections."

The 2nd section would give Congress and the states the Power to "distinguish between natural persons and corporations or other entities created by law, including by prohibiting such entities from spending money to influence elections."

Their revised amendment would give power to Congress and the states.   And we all know what happens when government is given power to do anything - it is used AGAINST the People, and it undermines liberty.

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed."  - SkyChief


I agree with you on this one.  Both parties support so called campaign finance reform which limits spending on free speech.  It's a flagrant violation of the first Amendment.

W even said that.  Wow, this violates the first Amendment.  Then in typical Republican/W style, he signed it ...
  

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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #14 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:50pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:20pm:
Schumer and Udall want the government to have the power to limit how much you speak about an election. Currently, the 1st Amendment prohibits that.

Probably so.


It limits how much I can "speak" about an election?  Wow, that's not true.  It's about spending, not speaking.  I think in a way you meant that, but you should be more clear in what you mean.  No one has a timer for how much you can talk about elections
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #15 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 4:45pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
Jim Acosta was part of it.  But he's only the biggest one.  There were lots of leftists there for self promotion.   Trump has been having lots of press conferences, he just has it another way.

So that's a really weak argument on Republicans are censoring free speech.

Planning to, trying to, that's what the Chief said.

They haven't managed to get it done yet.
  

"Free hate speech"
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #16 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 4:46pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:41pm:
Leftists trying to shut down speech with violence is free market....
Listen to yourself, fool.
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #17 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 4:47pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:50pm:
It limits how much I can "speak" about an election?  Wow, that's not true.  It's about spending, not speaking.  I think in a way you meant that, but you should be more clear in what you mean.  No one has a timer for how much you can talk about elections
In January 2010, SCOTUS ruled that it is OK for corporations and labor unions to spend as much as they want to convince people to vote for or against a candidate.  This was known as the "Citizen's United" ruling.

Schumer and Udall's proposed amendment would essentially overturn the Supreme Court's Citizen United ruling, thereby giving Congress and the states the POWER to set their own rules on spending and money in elections.   Not good!

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed."  - SkyChief
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #18 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 4:48pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:43pm:
You don't understand the bill of rights at all. The bill of rights is a limit on government power.

Trump expressing his own view of Kaepernick is PROTECTED by free speech, not restricted.
You're as big a whack job as that Snacky Hack entity was. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #19 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 4:51pm
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kaz wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 3:41pm:
Leftists trying to shut down speech with violence is free market and Trump criticizing Kaepernick and not having press conferences is government guns.

This is you using unemotional logic.  Yeah ....


The president can't just say whatever. His words reflect on the country. The government must be impartial, and yes, that means allow Leftist reporters.

The ACLU does not have to be impartial. Colleges do not have to be impartial if they are private.

Neither does the NRA, but they don't have the big money the Left does.

Ask Skychief to tell you about the time I was arguing what you are now and I was shut down by superior logic, which I accepted.

"Well, these organisations take government money, so doesn't that make them extensions of government? Shouldn't they then have to be impartial? What's the difference between government running DHS and paying the employees, and government just funding the operation with handouts?"
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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