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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech (Read 1300 times)
Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #110 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 7:07am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 14th, 2019 at 9:50pm:
Tell me now if the market for the Human sport of Handegg is sufficiently unfree to cause market pressures not to work.

Governments crony around with the rich team owners and get lots of nice perks from them in return for giving them nifty new tax funded stadiums. Those governments have a vested interest in the current team owners, and are likely to discourage competitors from entering the field. It's how crony capitalism works.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #111 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 7:13am
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Another continuing attack on free speech:

https://reason.com/2019/11/13/federal-government-cant-just-allow-3d-gunmaking-so...

From the article:

"Seeing the files as analogous to a book containing instructions on how to make a gun, Defense Distributed, along with other parties, sued the State Department in 2015 on First Amendment grounds. The federal government settled that lawsuit in July 2018. As part of the settlement, the feds announced certain such software files, known generically as CAD files (for computer-aided design), would be removed from the United States Munitions List (USML). Items on that list require a license to export.

Within days of that announcement, various states and the District of Columbia sued the federal government for taking the files off the list, claiming that the removal was done "in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act [APA]." The plaintiffs claimed that "there is no indication in the settlement agreement or elsewhere that any analysis, study or determination was made by the government defendants in consultation with other agencies before the federal government agreed to lift export controls on the downloadable guns." The plaintiffs also said the decision "violates the Tenth Amendment by infringing on states' rights to regulate firearms.""

Does a state's power (not right)  to regulate firearms include the power to infringe on free speech?

Does a state's power to regulate firearms trump the 2nd Amendment?

Do any states have the power to regulate firearms, or are they bound by their Constitutions to protect the right to keep and bear arms?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #112 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 10:43am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 7:07am:
Governments crony around with the rich team owners and get lots of nice perks from them in return for giving them nifty new tax funded stadiums. Those governments have a vested interest in the current team owners, and are likely to discourage competitors from entering the field. It's how crony capitalism works.


So there's no way to test whether the free market works or not because we don't have one. Is that what you're saying? No way to figure out whether the government or the free market actually pushed the XFL out of the market, if that happens?

Or are you just going to point to whatever works and post-hoc claim it must have been the free market, and point to whatever doesn't and claim it must have been the government?

You still haven't answered about whether it was a violation of liberty to use social pressure to demand that campus newspaper not publish anything offensive. If I say something like this is wrong, you'll refute it. If I say it's not, you'll refute that. So how about you tell me if it violates liberty or not? I'm asking you.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #113 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 12:17pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 10:43am:
So there's no way to test whether the free market works or not because we don't have one.
Some of our markets are more free than others.

You can compare health care costs in general to the costs of eye care in general. The first market is highly regulated, and prices have been going up rapidly. The second is pretty free, and costs have been going down steadily while the quality goes up.

Pick any product or service that's not regulated or not regulated much, and you can see how free markets work.

Yes, it's getting more and more difficult to find any unregulated markets...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #114 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 12:22pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 10:43am:
You still haven't answered about whether it was a violation of liberty to use social pressure to demand that campus newspaper not publish anything offensive.
It's a shame that college and university administrators give in to that sort of pressure. It sends a very bad message to the people they are supposed to be educating.

If "no offensive ideas are to be aired or published" is the standard, then virtually nothing can be aired or published, because somebody will probably be offended no matter what you say.

Edit: If a mob shouts down a speaker, they interfere with that speakers right to speak, they violate his liberty to speak freely at that time and in that forum. And it's rude. Angry

  

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The Opposition
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #115 - Nov 15th, 2019 at 11:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 12:22pm:
It's a shame that college and university administrators give in to that sort of pressure. It sends a very bad message to the people they are supposed to be educating.

If "no offensive ideas are to be aired or published" is the standard, then virtually nothing can be aired or published, because somebody will probably be offended no matter what you say.

Edit: If a mob shouts down a speaker, they interfere with that speakers right to speak, they violate his liberty to speak freely at that time and in that forum. And it's rude. Angry


I'm sorry, but that didn't answer my question.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #116 - Nov 16th, 2019 at 7:30am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 11:06pm:
I'm sorry, but that didn't answer my question.
Another opinion piece that's related:

https://reason.com/2019/11/14/daily-northwestern-journalism-student-activist-apo...

From the article:

"The initial concern of those who reacted negatively to the Daily Northwestern editorial is that student journalists feel pressured to compromise their editorial integrity in order to appease an activist agenda. That's a legitimate concern, and it's really not "way more complicated."

Expressing your opinion that journalists should be sensitive to the desires of "activists" is legitimate. Get up a petition and gather signatures of people who think journalists should be forbidden to write about certain things, or certain people, or certain ideas. That's fine.

What is not acceptable is that governments (in this case the administrators of the university, who in a sense govern the school newspaper and all the students that are enrolled) are willing to act to censor ideas on behalf of those who disagree with the ideas... Even if it's 'only' by pressuring them, or refusing to allow them to speak on campus.
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #117 - Nov 16th, 2019 at 9:14am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 15th, 2019 at 12:22pm:
It's a shame that college and university administrators give in to that sort of pressure. It sends a very bad message to the people they are supposed to be educating


They aren't caving to the pressure, they are a big part of the problem themselves
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #118 - Nov 16th, 2019 at 1:05pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 9:14am:
They aren't caving to the pressure, they are a big part of the problem themselves
I stand corrected, and I agree. They are probably soliciting the protests so they have an excuse to exclude ideas they don't like.
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #119 - Nov 20th, 2019 at 9:09am
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This is the tyranny of a minority over the majority. Something our Constitution was designed to prevent:

https://reason.com/2019/11/19/harvard-crimson-editors-journalism-ice-activists/?...

The lead in:

"Progressive activists want the newspaper to stop practicing balanced journalism."
  

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