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SkyChief
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #130 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 12:30pm
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There's a new face to the book burners and brown shirts of the 1940s. 

UC Berkely students try in vain to stifle conservative speaker Ann Coulter:



It's ironic that UC Berkeley was a bastion of Free Speech in the 1960s.

Last night, however, attendees had to be escorted by police into Wheeler Hall Auditorium where Coulter spoke.

After the event was over, attendees were escorted out of a side door by police for their safety.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ann-coulter-protestors-helicopter-berkele...
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #131 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 4:09pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 12:30pm:
It's ironic that UC Berkeley was a bastion of Free Speech in the 1960s


I always hear people say this, but  I have a question.  You're older than me and I was born in the middle of the sixties.

Did Berkeley really champion "free speech" in the 60s, or did they just champion leftist speech then too?  Did they actually advocate people who disagreed with them had a right to speak too?

Serious question, I don't know the answer
  

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Jeff
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #132 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 5:25pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 4:09pm:
I always hear people say this, but  I have a question.  You're older than me and I was born in the middle of the sixties.

Did Berkeley really champion "free speech" in the 60s...
Yes. The reason being that inflammatory revolutionary speech, anarchists calling for the tearing down of America and the stomping of the Ideals of America into the dirt... (No, it was "tossing them on the dustbin of History") was being suppressed.

In the modern sense of course, where your speech is being suppressed unless you are guaranteed a free stage and a captive audience.

That was the sort of speech that was being championed at Berkeley.

The suppression of other speech would come later... and here we are, only "leftist" speech is now allowed.

Everything else is "hateful".

What a crock.
  

"Free hate speech"
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SkyChief
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #133 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:15pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 4:09pm:
Did Berkeley really champion "free speech" in the 60s, or did they just champion leftist speech then too?  Did they actually advocate people who disagreed with them had a right to speak too?

Serious question, I don't know the answer
Fair question.

The answer is that UC Berkeley questioned US involvement in the Vietnam war.

They were right to do this.   Vietnam was a fiasco.   Sixty thousand US soldiers died for nothing.

Today, many US soldiers die in the Middle East for oil.

What a waste.

We can frac,   Eff them.




  

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The Opposition
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #134 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:22pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 4:09pm:
Did Berkeley really champion "free speech" in the 60s, or did they just champion leftist speech then too?  Did they actually advocate people who disagreed with them had a right to speak too?


This is the problem with people who cry out for free speech. They never want the other side to have free speech, just their side.

This is true of every last Human so far as I know.

When they're the underdog, they'll cry for equality, but they'll use that boost to get straight to the top, and immediately push others down.

Whether or not there were useful idiots at Berkeley who may have believed in serious debate is neither here nor there.

Only the stupid give up power.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #135 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:49pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:15pm:
Fair question.

The answer is that UC Berkeley questioned US involvement in the Vietnam war.

They were right to do this.   Vietnam was a fiasco.   Sixty thousand US soldiers died for nothing.

Today, many US soldiers die in the Middle East for oil.

What a waste.

We can frac,   Eff them.






I don't see an answer to my question.  So?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #136 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 10:55pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:49pm:
I don't see an answer to my question.  So?
So oil is not the end-all answer.

Fracturing (fracking) gets us the oil we need.

We don't need to worry about the effing communists.
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #137 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 7:29am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 10:55pm:
So oil is not the end-all answer.

Fracturing (fracking) gets us the oil we need.

We don't need to worry about the effing communists.


My question was whether Berkeley was actually known for "free" speech in the Sixties?  At that point, it was leftist speech that would have been restricted.  Did they just say free speech and advocate leftist speech?  Or did they actually advocate free speech even if they disagreed with it?

I am not aware of any time in history that leftists have ever advocated actual free speech, just their own.  But I'm not old enough to remember that particular instance, so I'm asking
  

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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #138 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 8:10am
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Berkeley, during the 60s, was just like the Cultural Revolution in China.  Their free speech was restricted to "in with the new and out with the old".

They had old perverts like Alan Watts leading them.
  
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Re: Both Left And Right Lobby To Stifle Free Speech
Reply #139 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 9:04am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:15pm:
Fair question.

The answer is that UC Berkeley questioned US involvement in the Vietnam war.
The anti-war "movement" in the U.S. was led by communist revolutionaries, and much of the faculty at Berkeley supported them, being "socialists".

It wasn't necessary to be a communist supporter to oppose the war, and many people opposed if for reasons other than wanting to help the communists expand their evil empire.

I opposed it because it looked to me as if our political leaders wanted it to be a perpetual war that our military wasn't allowed to win.

It was at the time of the Vietnam War that I first took Eisenhower's warnings about the MIC seriously.
  

"Free hate speech"
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