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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . . (Read 760 times)
Little Biq Man
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #10 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:20am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:13am:
Tell the CPS to contact the child's school and the child's physician.


But deny the order until then? 

The CPS worker is not going to go out and do all that work.  The CPS worker is simply going to write, "judge ______ denied the order" and put the file on the pile of pending cases in their inbox. 

Then when some child who is really being abused makes the news, that same worker is going to dig up that file and tell the news, "I was worried sick about that poor child, but the judge stymied me." 

So, again . . . no judge is going to deny that order.  They delegate the authority to their clerk so if anything goes south, they can fire the clerk and hire a replacement.

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I'm assuming the school would have contacted the parents to ask "Why isn't Suzy coming to school?", then asked for corroborating information from the child's physician.


Not a good assumption that your beloved public schools would have done the right thing. 


  
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Jeff
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #11 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:29am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:20am:
But deny the order until then? 

The CPS worker is not going to go out and do all that work.  The CPS worker is simply going to write, "judge ______ denied the order" and put the file on the pile of pending cases in their inbox. 
There are some legitimate reasons why children don't attend the public schools, and there is no reason to involve CPS to find out why.

Can't you come up with a less absurd scenario?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #12 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:32am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:20am:
Not a good assumption that your beloved public schools would have done the right thing. 


The kind of public schools I like hardly exist anymore. If they did, they would call Suzy's parents and ask them why Suzy wasn't coming to school. Then they would probably hold a bake sale to raise money to help out Suzy's parents, and get all of her (would be) school mates to make cards to send to her, which her parents could show to her through the bubble if they chose to.

They would also use it as a learning opportunity to teach the other kids about SCID.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #13 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:58am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:32am:
The kind of public schools I like hardly exist anymore. If they did, they would call Suzy's parents and ask them why Suzy wasn't coming to school. Then they would probably hold a bake sale to raise money to help out Suzy's parents, and get all of her (would be) school mates to make cards to send to her, which her parents could show to her through the bubble if they chose to.

They would also use it as a learning opportunity to teach the other kids about SCID.


Well, that sounds awesome!

Which public schools are these?  Name the districts, I'd like to read about them.

  
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SkyChief
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #14 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 10:29am
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Never shoot anyone with a warrant.  A warrant is power - a power granted by the Justice system.

Comply or die.  All powers wielded by the government are greater than ours (citizens).

That's our fault for giving it to them.

“When the government fears the people there is liberty.  When the people fear the government there is tyranny.” - Thomas Jefferson
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Little Biq Man
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #15 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 10:55am
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 10:29am:
Never shoot anyone with a warrant.  A warrant is power - a power granted by the Justice system.

Comply or die.  All powers wielded by the government are greater than ours (citizens).

That's our fault for giving it to them.

“When the government fears the people there is liberty.  When the people fear the government there is tyranny.” - Thomas Jefferson


I agree completely.

In my admittedly unlikely scenario, I would have to sacrifice my freedom and possibly my life to save the lives of my children. 

By shooting the officers, I would prevent the life-threatening breach of my sterile environment.  That would buy me enough time to call 9/11 and have them notify the officers who will soon be arriving that I will be waiting outside to be arrested and explain about the safety of my children.

But, yes.  There is still a good chance that arriving police will shoot me upon arrival or that I will die en route to jail or hang myself in my cell having despaired over the poor functionality of the jail cameras.

I have to be honest:  shooting the CPS worker would be kind of a "while I'm at it" thing.

  
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The Opposition
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #16 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:00am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 8:23am:
If the police officer and the CPS workers are the innocents, who is the guilty?

If I shoot them all out of no malice, but only to protect my child, am I the guilty? 


Yes, you are the guilty one. Self-defence must be proportionate to the force used. An excess of force and you aggress.

If they really don't know what they're doing (and of course there is a case that they may have the obligation to double-check when people are telling them to go to peoples' houses with battering rams) it's not murder when they kill your kids; it's manslaughter.

This would allow you to manslaughter them in kind. Not to murder them. Since you only have the option to put them down deliberately and not by negligent accident, you use that option and it's aggression.

Or you can allow the situation to proceed and let them manslaughter your kids so that they will receive the punishment appropriate for manslaughter.

This is my honest interpretation of how the NAP applies to this scenario, given what I have learnt about self-defence and proportionate force.

(Note: I'm not going to third-option you, with something like threatening the CPS workers with being shot and using that to explain to them that it's a sterile environment. While this might be a good option, you're looking for how the NAP applies to a specific case and I have given you my honest opinion.)
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Biq Man
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #17 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:08am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:00am:
Yes, you are the guilty one. Self-defence must be proportionate to the force used. An excess of force and you aggress.

If they really don't know what they're doing


Very Christ-like of you, Oppo!

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(and of course there is a case that they may have the obligation to double-check when people are telling them to go to peoples' houses with battering rams)


Haven't thought this through, because I have to get back to poker, but off the top of my head, I don't know that we want armed government officials double checking their orders.  We want the orders to comply with libertarian principles and then we want them followed to the letter.

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it's not murder when they kill your kids; it's manslaughter.

This would allow you to manslaughter them in kind. Not to murder them. Since you only have the option to put them down deliberately and not by negligent accident, you use that option and it's aggression.

Or you can allow the situation to proceed and let them manslaughter your kids so that they will receive the punishment appropriate for manslaughter.

This is my honest interpretation of how the NAP applies to this scenario, given what I have learnt about self-defence and proportionate force.

(Note: I'm not going to third-option you, with something like threatening the CPS workers with being shot and using that to explain to them that it's a sterile environment. While this might be a good option, you're looking for how the NAP applies to a specific case and I have given you my honest opinion.)


I like that third option, but Jeff would hope the two police officers would shoot me down like a dog, preferably in the belly so I would die slowly and painfully.


  
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kaz
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #18 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:11am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:08am:
Very Christ-like of you, Oppo!


In one thread, Opposition argues endlessly that rights are absolute and that anyone who answers his question by saying that they are proportional aren't answering his question.  Then he goes to another thread and says they aren't absolute, they are proportional.  More of his stupid ODD crap
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #19 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:19am
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kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:11am:
In one thread, Opposition argues endlessly that rights are absolute and that anyone who answers his question by saying that they are proportional aren't answering his question.  Then he goes to another thread and says they aren't absolute, they are proportional.  More of his stupid ODD crap


Please stop conflating having a right with the proper scope of self-defence of that right. You're doing it intentionally.

When the CPS workers bash down the door and kill his kids, they are in the wrong. That's all I mean by an absolute right. When the thief takes my lawnmower, against my will, when I did not aggress first, he is in the wrong. I know I can't put a bullet through his head because of that, and that's not what I was asking.

Whether or not (and how) that right can legitimately be defended was not part of the question I asked about whether there are absolute rights or not.

Also, I was not arguing for absolute rights. I was asking if there are any. I simply clarified what I meant by absolute right.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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