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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . . (Read 748 times)
Little Biq Man
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #20 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:53am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 9:29am:
There are some legitimate reasons why children don't attend the public schools, and there is no reason to involve CPS to find out why. [quote]

Yet, your beloved public schools do it constantly.  They keep CPS case workers fully employed and constantly complaining of overwork when they fail to protect children who are actually being abused.

[quote]

Can't you come up with a less absurd scenario?


I admitted it was unlikely.  But police insisting on entering private property without a warrant?  Happens all the time.

To see for yourself youtube "no warrant property." 

Countless examples of police officers refusing a property owners request to leave the property.

What is the property owner's recourse in your world view?

Call his buddies at the station to complain?

  
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kaz
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #21 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:05pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:19am:
Please stop conflating having a right with the proper scope of self-defence of that right. You're doing it intentionally.

When the CPS workers bash down the door and kill his kids, they are in the wrong. That's all I mean by an absolute right. When the thief takes my lawnmower, against my will, when I did not aggress first, he is in the wrong. I know I can't put a bullet through his head because of that, and that's not what I was asking.

Whether or not (and how) that right can legitimately be defended was not part of the question I asked about whether there are absolute rights or not.

Also, I was not arguing for absolute rights. I was asking if there are any. I simply clarified what I meant by absolute right.


The ability to defend a right is clearly a limit on the right.  You have a distinction without a difference.  If you can't enforce a right absolutely, then it isn't an absolute right.  I agree with that, I disagree with your calling rights "absolute."

So by "absolute right," you mean you can go off in the corner and sulk that you were in the right.  That's all an "absolute right" is.

Note, if you ignore this post like you do most other responses to your posts, I'm not going to keep giving you chances.  You can disagree with my argument, but respond to it.  Not your normal converation.

Opposition:  {question}
kaz: {answer}
Opposition:  Isn't anyone going to answer my question?
kaz:  {answers again, insults opposition}
Opposition:  {sees insult, still doesn't respond to the answer}
kaz:  {just insults opposition, calls him stupid}
Opposition:  So that's a libertarian win, I ignored your answer and you insulted me.  WTF?

I'm tired of that conversation with you.  Seriously.   Why bother asking questions if you don't actually want to discuss them?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #22 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:13pm
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I did specify what I meant in the question.

The Opposition wrote on Oct 26th, 2019 at 10:17pm:
Is at least the [negative!] right to life absolute, here meaning that no person may be gunned down without at least having violated the rights of others first?


Which parts of your post would you like me to comment on? Maybe you should stop insulting me at all, so I see the rest of your post, if that's really the problem.

From where I sit, my questions get lambasted and insulted and misinterpreted from the beginning, not answered at all.

You're the libertarian. You make the rules. You decide what rights there are, and what rights there aren't. I'm out to follow them. If it bugs you that you get asked questions, perhaps someone else should decide the rules (like the government).
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #23 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:57pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:13pm:
I did specify what I meant in the question.


You don't have an "absolute" right to life.  It can be taken from a jury of your peers for committing a crime.  You can get drafted.  There are limits on every right


The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:13pm:
Which parts of your post would you like me to comment on? Maybe you should stop insulting me at all, so I see the rest of your post, if that's really the problem


Well, we are moving that way.  Instead of insulting you, I'm just responding to you less and less at all.  Again, you don't have to agree with my points, but you must acknowledge them.  Or don't, but don't whine when I won't respond to you at all

The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:13pm:
From where I sit, my questions get lambasted and insulted and misinterpreted from the beginning, not answered at all.

You're the libertarian. You make the rules. You decide what rights there are, and what rights there aren't. I'm out to follow them. If it bugs you that you get asked questions, perhaps someone else should decide the rules (like the government).


Whine, moan, bitch.  Poor baby, people are mean to you on the internet.  That's so sad, it shouldn't happen
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #24 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:59pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 11:53am:
I admitted it was unlikely.  But police insisting on entering private property without a warrant?  Happens all the time.


Yes, and the police frequently lie about it too. Make them all wear body cams, and toss out anything that isn't recorded on their body cam. Fine them for going on duty with an inoperable body cam or one that was turned off. Fire them for the third offense.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #25 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:01pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:05pm:
If you can't enforce a right absolutely, then it isn't an absolute right.
The name for this sort of bad reasoning escapes me...
  

"Free hate speech"
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Jeff
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #26 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:08pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:57pm:
There are limits on every right.



I disagree. When the law says to the government, "You shall make no law infringing on the right of the free exercise of religion", then free exercise of religion becomes an absolute right against the government. The law makes it into an absolute right as far as any government action is concerned.

It is not an absolute right when held up to the equal rights of others.

It's essential when talking about rights as "absolute" to distinguish if you mean that I can stop you from speaking on my stage, or if the government can stop you from speaking freely at all.
  

"Free hate speech"
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The Opposition
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #27 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:09pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:57pm:
You don't have an "absolute" right to life.  It can be taken from a jury of your peers for committing a crime.  You can get drafted.  There are limits on every right


I did specify unless I aggress first. I am simply asking if there is some scenario wherein (without me aggressing first) I can be legitimately gunned down. I am not asking about the draft, unless they draft me to immediately kill me so they can feed my corpse to the other soldiers.

If there's a better way to ask that question without using the word absolute, as in, without me having violated the rights of others first, I absolutely can't be gunned down, tell me the phraseology you want, and I will apologise for using the wrong phraseology and substitute the correct phraseology.

kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:57pm:
Well, we are moving that way.  Instead of insulting you, I'm just responding to you less and less at all.  Again, you don't have to agree with my points, but you must acknowledge them.  Or don't, but don't whine when I won't respond to you at all


I never have. If you don't want to respond, don't.

kaz wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 12:57pm:
Whine, moan, bitch.  Poor baby, people are mean to you on the internet.  That's so sad, it shouldn't happen


Uhm... acknowledged, I guess.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #28 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:08pm:
I disagree. When the law says to the government, "You shall make no law infringing on the right of the free exercise of religion", then free exercise of religion becomes an absolute right against the government. The law makes it into an absolute right as far as any government action is concerned.

It is not an absolute right when held up to the equal rights of others.

It's essential when talking about rights as "absolute" to distinguish if you mean that I can stop you from speaking on my stage, or if the government can stop you from speaking freely at all.


So if someone decides that child molestation is part of their church/religion, government cannot do anything because religion is "absolute?"  You ODD brainiacs never thing through your stupid arguments before you make them
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Suppose my Child Does Not Attend School, because . . .
Reply #29 - Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:19pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 3rd, 2019 at 1:09pm:
I did specify unless I aggress first. I am simply asking if there is some scenario wherein (without me aggressing first) I can be legitimately gunned down


Again, getting drafted.  I don't know how you can say except that.  You are forced to put your life on the line and you have not aggressed.  That proves the right to life is not "absolute."

Another would be you could be shot by police by mistake because you are a hostage and they didn't know that or if you were believed to have committed a crime and resisted arrest feeling you hadn't done anything wrong and they had no right to do that.  If rights are "absolute," they would need proof before shooting you.

If police witness a crime or see say a bloody body in the open in your property, they can enter, that could also lead to an accidental shooting.  If a cop sees your bloody daughter through a window in the door, we have decided that is sufficient to enter the property without a warrant, and for good reason. But it's not perfect.   Not perfect means your rights violated are not absolute.

For the most part, cops shooting people who aren't committing violent crimes in the street if frowned on.

I gave you yet another specific answer to your question.   I insist you acknowledge my answer whether or not you agree with it.

We could have a lot of good discussions because 5% of the time you show you are capable of reading, processing and researching beyond the capabilities of anyone else on the site.  The other 95% though ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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