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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Priviliges and Immunities (Read 461 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #60 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
Personally I would love an "at least one" clause for everything that does not violate rights, but which nonetheless someone wants to be legal. Can't ban it if you're the last place people who want it have to go.


Then you ought to have moved.


Problem is that I would have to marry my half-sister in Conroe, go to Atlantic City to play poker, to Denver to smoke week and then to Los Angeles for horse racing and then all the way back to Houston to visit the robot brothel, the honeymoon being over and me being tired of sis already.

Moving from place to place to exercise my rights defeats the only worthwhile purpose of government which is to ensure land ownership privileges.  Without land ownership, we are doomed to a nomadic lifestyle.  If I have to live a nomadic lifestyle just tp be “allowed” to buy whiskey on Sunday, my voluntary contributions to government are wasted.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #61 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:17am
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kaz wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 8:17pm:
The former is not a possibility, not on the long run


Our government did work for a long time.
Your claim is that good government can be created and maintained, but not over "the long run"?


  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #62 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:20am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 6:33pm:
... to rescue you. Yes. Elite troops. The best-of-the-best.

Then they'll probably have to kill all the local cops, and the mayor.

Banana Republic stuff.

Is that the "progressive" Ideal these days?


So, sending paratroopers to force Arkansas schools to obey the Supreme Court was bad?  So obeying SCOTUS decisions is optional, then?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #63 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:20am
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kaz wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 8:17pm:
Alexander Fraser Tytler:  “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

We lasted about 200 years.  The seeds of our destruction started...
...when our federal system was made more democratic and less federal.

We can avoid the collapse back into anarchy, and then tyranny, by acting to restore our federal system, to make it less democratic. Smiley
  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #64 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:22am
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:10am:
Problem is that I would have to marry my half-sister in Conroe, go to Atlantic City to play poker, to Denver to smoke week and then to Los Angeles for horse racing and then all the way back to Houston to visit the robot brothel, the honeymoon being over and me being tired of sis already.

Moving from place to place to exercise my rights defeats the only worthwhile purpose of government which is to ensure land ownership privileges. 
Not just that. Certainly you realize that a good government has other purposes as well?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #65 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:26am
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:20am:
So, sending paratroopers to force Arkansas schools to obey the Supreme Court was bad?  So obeying SCOTUS decisions is optional, then?
Troops were sent because rights were being violated. It was a matter of forcing the State government of Arkansas to obey the Constitution, which clearly says that governments may not discriminate against any citizen, or group of citizens.
  

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kaz
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #66 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 9:22am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:20am:
...when our federal system was made more democratic and less federal.

We can avoid the collapse back into anarchy, and then tyranny, by acting to restore our federal system, to make it less democratic. Smiley


Right.  The Federal government should be a thin layer over the States that provides defense and little more.

Democracy should be at the State and local levels.  And people can move to States that fit their values
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #67 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 9:54am
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kaz wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 9:22am:
Right.  The Federal government should be a thin layer over the States that provides defense and little more.

Democracy should be at the State and local levels.  And people can move to States that fit their values
The simple description is that democratic processes should be used to elect the people's representatives at the federal level, who should then use democratic processes to propose laws within their grants of power.

Added to that, democratic processes should be used to elect people's representatives at the state level, who should then use democratic processes to appoint Senators, who should also use democratic processes to either agree with laws proposed by the House, or oppose them.

On top of that, Presidents, who have veto power, and are chosen by electors (who have been chosen by democratic processes), are to appoint Judges, who are to be either confirmed or rejected by democratic processes within the Senate.

The actions of all of them, who are all required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution, are restrained by the grants of limited power given to them through the Constitution, and by specific prohibitions contained within the Constitution.

You know all this, of course, but I don't think they teach it to young people much any more...

The 17th Amendment, by making Senators elected officials, elected by democratic processes, rather than officials appointed by State legislatures, removed the power of the state legislatures from the process of making federal laws, and started us on that road where too much democracy leads to the downfall of good government.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #68 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:04am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:26am:
Troops were sent because rights were being violated.


Are rights not being violated (thanks for using the passive voice!), if my local community bans selling whiskey?

Quote:
It was a matter of forcing the State government of Arkansas to obey the Constitution, which clearly says that governments may not discriminate against any citizen, or group of citizens.


So, there are no rights other than those specified in the constitution?


  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #69 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 1:03pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:04am:
Are rights not being violated (thanks for using the passive voice!), if my local community bans selling whiskey?
I think so, but the violation, which I assume is at the behest of the local community, where Baptists and bootleggers might hold sway, seems less serious than for a state to deny equal rights to everyone in the state, and the Constitutional prohibition is against states violating rights, not local communities.
As always, it's tricky when rights are in competition.
Do the people of a local community have a right to pass ordinances that they believe to be for the health and safety of everyone in the community? Does your asserted right to be able to buy alcohol in the community you live in trump that right?
  

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