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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Priviliges and Immunities (Read 641 times)
Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #70 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 1:04pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:04am:
So, there are no rights other than those specified in the constitution?


What leads you to that erroneous conclusion?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #71 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 2:34pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 1:03pm:
I think so, but the violation, which I assume is at the behest of the local community, where Baptists and bootleggers might hold sway, seems less serious than for a state to deny equal rights to everyone in the state, and the Constitutional prohibition is against states violating rights, not local communities.


I do not think that local communities can constitutionally allow slavery, do you?

Quote:
As always, it's tricky when rights are in competition.

Do the people of a local community have a right to pass ordinances that they believe to be for the health and safety of everyone in the community? Does your asserted right to be able to buy alcohol in the community you live in trump that right?


Is "they believe" the only standard?  So, they have a community-based right to pass a law requiring me to eat my peas for my health and safety, and I would need to argue that my right to avoid peas trumps their right  to force me to eat them?

In a community with five hundred bootleggers and five hundred Baptists, and one honest whiskey seller, I say that all thousand of them do not have the right to vote for whiskey to be illegal, but I do have a right to legally sell it.

Naturally, if they do not pass a law banning whiskey, the bootleggers themselves become my honest competitors and of course the Baptists are free to "sell" me on abstinence so long as they do not drag me into the church.  See how the free market solves such "conflicts of rights" much better than government does?



  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #72 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 4:16pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 1:04pm:
What leads you to that erroneous conclusion?
Well?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #73 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 4:59pm
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Little Big Man wrote Today at 10:04am:
Quote:
So, there are no rights other than those specified in the constitution?


Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 1:04pm:
What leads you to that erroneous conclusion?


The fact that I have never seen you claim that an individual has any right that cannot be taken away by a local or state government unless that right is specified in the U.S. Constitution. 

I call it "Jeff's doctrine of enumerated rights."


  

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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #74 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 4:59pm:
Little Big Man wrote Today at 10:04am:


The fact that I have never seen you claim that an individual has any right that cannot be taken away by a local or state government unless that right is specified in the U.S. Constitution. 


Hmm, the fact that I constantly say that individuals are free do do anything they want, by right, just so long as they respect the equal rights of others, doesn't matter?

OK, I suppose as far as local governments are concerned, you are not quite that free... That's your complaint, that you moved into a dry county where your property is taxed to fund the local police and courts, and schools?

You consider that to be such a burden on your liberty, that you want to abolish government entirely? Do I understand you correctly?


  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #75 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 6:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
Hmm, the fact that I constantly say that individuals are free do do anything they want, by right, just so long as they respect the equal rights of others, doesn't matter?

OK, I suppose as far as local governments are concerned, you are not quite that free... That's your complaint, that you moved into a dry county where your property is taxed to fund the local police and courts, and schools?

You consider that to be such a burden on your liberty, that you want to abolish government entirely? Do I understand you correctly?




Gosh, Jeff.  All you gotta do to prove the Big Man wrong is just name a whole buncha rights that you don't believe local governments can ever take away even though they ain't in the Constitution!

Go ahead, make his day . . . 
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #76 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
Hmm, the fact that I constantly say that individuals are free do do anything they want, by right, just so long as they respect the equal rights of others, doesn't matter?


Coming from you, the emphasised bit means, "Read the fine print, loser. This contract means you give up everything and get nothing. I'm the best %$#&ing wheel-and-dealer alive! Yeah!"

You will always have a reason someone else does not get what they want.

You will always have a reason you get what you want.

Principles to a libertarian are like keys, used to gain access to resources and then, when you want to open a different door, you will simply pick up a different key and use that one. The keys have no significance to you but that they open the door.

This should come as no surprise to someone who understands that libertarians do not have to keep their word unless the exact right wording is used, even in a contract.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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kaz
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #77 - Nov 9th, 2019 at 9:07am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 6:45pm:
Gosh, Jeff.  All you gotta do to prove the Big Man wrong is just name a whole buncha rights that you don't believe local governments can ever take away even though they ain't in the Constitution!

Go ahead, make his day . . . 


Did the two of you discuss that while you were using the same toothbrush?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #78 - Nov 9th, 2019 at 9:08am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:00pm:
You will always have a reason you get what you want.

I hope so, because what I want is maximized individual liberty in a civilized society. Smiley

I keep supposing that it is self-evident that there are inevitable tensions that arise between complete liberty for individuals, and the maintenance of a civilized society...

I understand that anyone who constantly demands "absolutes" won't be able to see that compromises are necessary on both sides if you want to maximize liberty and sustain a civilized society.
  

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kaz
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Re: Priviliges and Immunities
Reply #79 - Nov 9th, 2019 at 9:09am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 10:00pm:
Principles to a libertarian are like keys, used to gain access to resources and then, when you want to open a different door, you will simply pick up a different key and use that one. The keys have no significance to you but that they open the door


We believe in negative rights, not positive rights.  You're stupid as shit.  I keep asking you to name "libertarians" not named Jeff who declared a positive right (you can't) and what positive rights they are claiming (you can't).  You can't because you're pulling it out of your ass.  You're almost as big a libertarian troll as LBM.  When you're called on your lies, you just keep repeating them anyway
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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