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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarian sex (Read 391 times)
Jeff
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #30 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:10pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:01pm:
Jeff:  You're completely wrong kaz.  And I agree with you because you're right.

So are you still seeing spiders crawl up your arms, Jeff?
You conflate evolutionary process with learning.
  

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ahhell
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #31 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:41pm
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Consenting sex between adults should not be illegal, even if they are parent and child. 

I think there should be very strong cultural and social sanction against such behavior though.   Its almost guaranteed that the parent abused the child as a child so there is that and the power imbalance which almost certainly remains in adulthood as well. 

Jeff is probably wrong about the taboo against incest being merely learned.  There's evidence of some significant inborn distaste for incest.   Children raised in Israeli Kibbutz where children were raised communally almost never get married to children they were raised with.   Not only that, they almost never have sex with each other despite living in close contact with each other as teenager when they also had almost no contact with outsiders.  That suggests some pretty significant drive not to have sex with folks that might be your relations. 

There's also some research that shows that women find the smell of close male relatives to be repulsive and when living in the same house as close male relative, they are generally less interested in sex than when living alone or only with female relatives.    

Kaz is probably right about there being a genetic component to the distaste for incest.
  
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Industry
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #32 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:52pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:41pm:
Kaz is probably right about there being a genetic component to the distaste for incest.


Well what do you say to they might make retard babies that is victimizing the baby?

IDK cause nobody says people carrying harlequin icthyosis should not breed together it is recessive 1/4 of their kids will get it if both have it. I watched a documentary on it and the parents of one kid with it had another kid and knew it would be 1/4 she got it and no one said they were bad to do that.

Also I want to know of you think it was because of a fallacy that they thought it was not 1/4 maybe they thought it was 1/16 they were like oh it will not happen again that is so unlikely cause of gamblers fallacy so they did it.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #33 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:03pm
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Incest carries with it an increased risk of negative recessive phenotypes being expressed in the offspring, which is almost certainly why there are strong cultural taboos against it, and probably why the distaste is inherited. 

Which is why I think we should maintain those taboos.  The more incest the greater chance of recessive inherited traits being a problem.  I think we should probably also encourage unrelated couples with such traits from breeding with each other.  Because its mostly up to random chance as to weather unrelated individuals both have the same inheritable disease it poses less risk and some less pressure is required. 

Basically, if a couple knows they both have the same inherited recessive disease and decide to have a baby that ends up with that disease, I will judge them, but they shouldn't end up in prison.
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #34 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:51pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:03pm:
Basically, if a couple knows they both have the same inherited recessive disease and decide to have a baby that ends up with that disease, I will judge them, but they shouldn't end up in prison. 


Agreed.  That's the issue.

The problem with incest is the biological purpose of sex is to create babies.  It's very difficult to guarantee you won't have one.  I consider two people creating a baby like a hand ball in soccer.  There are zero cases where it's accepted as an accident, it's an automatic penalty.  That the rubber broke or you thought the woman was past her child bearing years or the vasectomy reversed is irrelevant to me.  You do it, you're responsible
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #35 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 4:59pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 3:03pm:
Incest carries with it an increased risk of negative recessive phenotypes being expressed in the offspring...
Defectives. It's not much of a problem at all now. Birth control works well I think, so the chances of having a baby at all are low. If you want to have babies together, be aware of the risks, like adults.

Be prepared to handle the responsibility.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #36 - Nov 7th, 2019 at 9:39pm
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:41pm:
Jeff is probably wrong about the taboo against incest being merely learned.  There's evidence of some significant inborn distaste for incest.   Children raised in Israeli Kibbutz where children were raised communally almost never get married to children they were raised with.   Not only that, they almost never have sex with each other despite living in close contact with each other as teenager when they also had almost no contact with outsiders.  That suggests some pretty significant drive not to have sex with folks that might be your relations. 

There's also some research that shows that women find the smell of close male relatives to be repulsive and when living in the same house as close male relative, they are generally less interested in sex than when living alone or only with female relatives.    

Kaz is probably right about there being a genetic component to the distaste for incest.


Jeff's insistence is the typical progressive/libertarian/leftist/individualist/fruedian bullshittery (I've heard all make this case, and I'm counting Jeff as a progressive) that Humans are all learning and no instinct. Blank slates.

"If blacks commit more crimes, it's because of environment. They learned to do that. No one is inherently more violent, or less intelligent, so society and the legacy of slavery must be to blame."

People can be inherently (slightly) more violent. They should still be treated as individuals. I don't know what's wrong with that.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #37 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 7:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 9:39pm:
Jeff's insistence is the typical progressive/libertarian/leftist/individualist/fruedian bullshittery (I've heard all make this case, and I'm counting Jeff as a progressive) that Humans are all learning and no instinct. Blank slates


Progressives & libertarians think that.  They also think men and women are the same other than our body parts and races are the same.

Libertarians, individualists and Freud do not say that.

I think you are looking for Skinner and Behaviorists, not Freudians as who thinks that.

Behaviorists have had success in superficial behavior adjustment, but no success at all in demonstrating their theory we are strictly products of our environment.  All experiments end up proving them wrong
  

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kaz
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #38 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 7:26am
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 9:39pm:
People can be inherently (slightly) more violent. They should still be treated as individuals. I don't know what's wrong with that.


No one said otherwise
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian sex
Reply #39 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 8:12am
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ahhell wrote on Nov 7th, 2019 at 2:41pm:
Jeff is probably wrong about the taboo against incest being merely learned.  There's evidence of some significant inborn distaste for incest.   Children raised in Israeli Kibbutz where children were raised communally almost never get married to children they were raised with.   Not only that, they almost never have sex with each other despite living in close contact with each other as teenager when they also had almost no contact with outsiders.  That suggests some pretty significant drive not to have sex with folks that might be your relations.      

People you are raised with seem boringly familiar, while someone you don't know as well looks exotic and exciting. The people raised in Kibbutzim do know who their relations are.

It's not really important. Adults can make decisions for themselves about incest, but they should know the potential dangers for any children they might choose to have.
  

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