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Poll Question: Should the 2nd Amendment be amended?



« Last Modified by: SkyChief on: Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:13pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment? (Read 2618 times)
Jeff
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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #80 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:57pm:
“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” - Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson didn't say that.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tyranny-defined-which-l...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #81 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:04pm:
...unless they had representation in Parliament.

That's how the Federalists wrote history.

However the truth is that colonists didn't want representation in Parliament.

The colonists objected to the Tea Act because they believed that it violated their right to be taxed only by their own elected representatives - not king-appointed officials in Parliament.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #82 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:22pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:05pm:
SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:57pm:
“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” - Thomas Jefferson


Jefferson didn't say that.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tyranny-defined-which-l...
Thanks for that.   

It really doesn't matter who said it.  It's the truth.    Kudos to whoever said it.
  

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Jeff
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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #83 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:23pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:14pm:
That's how the Federalist wrote history.

However the truth is that colonists didn't want representation in Parliament.

The colonists objected to the Tea Act because they believed that it violated their right to be taxed only by their own elected representatives - not king-appointed officials in Parliament.

I stand corrected, but it still amounts to "No taxation without representation".
  

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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #84 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:24pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
Thanks for that.   

It really doesn't matter who said it.  It's the truth.    Kudos to whoever said it.
Some anarchist or other, no doubt.
  

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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #85 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:14pm:
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot
An interesting man, Diderot.

"The completion of the Encyclopédie in 1772 left Diderot without a source of income. To relieve him of financial worry, Catherine the Great of Russia first bought his library through an agent in Paris, requesting him to retain the books until she required them, and then appointed him librarian on an annual salary for the duration of his life. Diderot went to St. Petersburg in 1773 to thank her for her financial support and was received with great honour and warmth. He wrote for her the Plan d’une université pour le gouvernement de Russie (“Plan of a University for the Government of Russia”). He stayed five months, long enough to become disillusioned with enlightened despotism as a solution to social ills."

From here:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Denis-Diderot/Novels-dialogues-and-plays

I couldn't find that he had any plan beyond murdering all the kings and priests other than his flirtation with "enlightened despotism".

He was an atheist. So you suppose he became an anarchist too?


  

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SkyChief
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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #86 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 3:00pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 2:34pm:
An interesting man, Diderot.


He was an atheist. So you suppose he became an anarchist too?
Diderot clearly had disdain for tyrannical kings and pious priests.

In addition to being atheist, he was anti-theist, meaning he believed that religion is harmful.

Diderot's work La Religieuse describes the distressing and ultimately tragic experiences of a girl who is forced to become a nun against her will.

It's hard to guess how many lives were ruined by people who were coerced into (a) religion.  Millions, no doubt.
  

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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #87 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

Gramatically, it's a mess. What the heck do all those commas mean?    It should be amended on that basis alone.

But because it's so poorly written, even the Supreme Court seems confused with its actual meaning.

Some big clues to the 2nd Amendments actual meaning and intent is found in some things written by the writer of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson;

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!"  - Thomas Jefferson

“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

TJ clearly believed that each citizen had an inalienable right to have guns.  The 2nd Amendment needs to state that clearly.

Amend it.
  

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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #88 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 3:33pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 4:22pm:
SkyChief wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 2:11pm:
Jeff wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 1:28pm:
"Because an armed populace will enable the prevention of tyranny, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

This is good because it explains the reason WHY our right to keep and bear arms should be protected.

For once, I have to disagree with you, Chief.

Our existing 2nd amendment explains why our right to keep and bear arms should be protected.  Unfortunately, that explanation has been used by the anti-gun crowd to say that we only have the right to keep and bear arms if we are in a well organized militia.  They have an argument, there. 

As far as I know, none of the other nine amendments in the bill of rights have an explanation of why the rights are important. 
Good points. 
  

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Re: How Would You Re-write The Second Amendment?
Reply #89 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 5:01pm
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SkyChief wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
Diderot clearly had disdain for tyrannical kings and pious priests.

In addition to being atheist, he was anti-theist, meaning he believed that religion is harmful.

He lived a dissolute life consorting with the elites, and Priests condemned people who did that sort of thing. Of course he would hate them and everything connected with them.
  

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