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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick? (Read 1775 times)
kaz
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #20 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 9:36am
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Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 8:30am:
Fine. Define wages as an hourly salary paid weekly


You again as I pointed out picked the minor point from my post.  The main one was that you think wages/salaries are not income, when they are the primary source of income.

You told Opposition you don't make up meanings of words, yet you do it all the time
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #21 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:49pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 9:36am:
The main one was that you think wages/salaries are not income, when they are the primary source of income.
When I hear, or read, a rational explanation of how a tax laid on wages and salaries is Indirect, I'll agree that wages and salaries are no different than incomes derived from the use of property.

Until then, I'll continue to believe that defining wages and salaries as "incomes" is a legal fiction.

Edit: The wages and salaries I earned were my property, they became my property in return for my labor, and were my property from the instant I received them.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #22 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 2:53pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:24pm:
No. But I will elaborate what I mean by I've never been anything but nice to you.

How about when I was relating some of my work experiences, and you said "I see red flags".

Obviously, that was intended to discredit me, and when I asked you to tell me what "red flags" you saw, you went silent...

That's not nice.
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #23 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 3:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
When I hear, or read, a rational explanation of how a tax laid on wages and salaries is Indirect, I'll agree that wages and salaries are no different than incomes derived from the use of property.

Until then, I'll continue to believe that defining wages and salaries as "incomes" is a legal fiction.

Edit: The wages and salaries I earned were my property, they became my property in return for my labor, and were my property from the instant I received them.


Of course taxes on wages and salaries are direct.  Income taxes are direct taxes.  What the hell is wrong with you?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #24 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 5:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
When I hear, or read, a rational explanation of how a tax laid on wages and salaries is Indirect, I'll agree that wages and salaries are no different than incomes derived from the use of property.

Until then, I'll continue to believe that defining wages and salaries as "incomes" is a legal fiction.

Edit: The wages and salaries I earned were my property, they became my property in return for my labor, and were my property from the instant I received them.


Legal fictions have always been an important part of.  Common law.  Adoptions are a legal fiction, so is an annulment of a marriage, so is the personhood of corporations..  In fact, common law itself is a legal fiction, one of may useful legal fictions.

You have argued that the right to your earned property is not absolute.  Yet, you believe that the right of the people to form a government that can take your property is absolute.  I understand that, but I don’t understand your reasoning that one is absolute but not the other. 

Is it that one cannot co-exist with the other, so you simply choose the one you like most?





  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #25 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 6:58pm
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kaz wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 3:59pm:
Of course taxes on wages and salaries are direct.  Income taxes are direct taxes.  What the hell is wrong with you? 
Sorry, no, taxes on incomes derived from the use of property are Indirect. They are required to be uniform.

All Direct taxes are required to be apportioned. Taxes on wages and salaries are Direct.

You are at least finally partly right, in that you understand that a tax laid on wages or salaries is a Direct tax.

Why you erroneously continue to believe that wages and salaries are "incomes", in some way like the incomes  I derive from the use of my property, is beyond understanding.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #26 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:04pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 5:40pm:
Legal fictions have always been an important part of.  Common law.  Adoptions are a legal fiction, so is an annulment of a marriage, so is the personhood of corporations..  In fact, common law itself is a legal fiction, one of may useful legal fictions.


I think the word you were seeking before you settled on "fictions" was "constructs".

I legal fiction is a lie all wrapped up in legal language and created definitions, so as to alter, or obscure, the actual substance involved.

For instance, It's a legal fiction to say that public purpose is a synonym for public use, much like it's a legal fiction to call wages and salaries "incomes" in order to tax them without apportionment.
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #27 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:06pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 5:40pm:
You have argued that the right to your earned property is not absolute.
Of course. I consent to legal taxation being used to raise revenue for legal purposes, but nothing more.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #28 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:16pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 5:40pm:
Yet, you believe that the right of the people to form a government that can take your property is absolute.  I understand that, but I don’t understand your reasoning that one is absolute but not the other. 
They are different things, existing on different levels.

People are willing to grant limited powers of taxation to support a government of laws that will equally protect their rights, and lives, and liberties.

The right of people to do this seems absolute.

Not to say people absolutely have to create any such government, they can create a tyranny if they want one, but it should be a tyranny that people have consented to, and one that they can alter or abolish. Smiley
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #29 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:19pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 5:40pm:
Legal fictions have always been an important part of.  Common law.
This is total bullshit.
  

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