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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick? (Read 884 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #40 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:46pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 8:45pm:
I think condemning me for what I actually am is forbidden these days. 

You are attempting to deny my humanity by oppressing my dick nature, which is my nature.

I feel like a dick, and that's all that counts!


You constantly condemn me for what I am: Someone without a conscience. I legitimately don't understand morality, which is why I have trouble understanding liberty. I can only understand it through consistent application of principles, and you know this, so you say there should be no principles. You do this so you can tell me no every time I want something. No, that thing violates liberty, you can't have that, even if the government says yes.

So I just follow what you say.

And you still condemn me for being evil at every opportunity, even though I let you run my entire life so I don't actually do anything evil, like violating rights.

This is the whole point of the whole Vulcan thing. It's been a repeating refrain in my life: Opposition does not get to have feelings. Opposition must walk on eggshells and bend over backwards to respect other peoples' feelings, because they get to have feelings. Amazing that I think we must be two different species, isn't it?

Jeff wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:10pm:
Well, what were the "red flags" that you saw?


I explained it in the thread.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #41 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:46pm:
You constantly condemn me for what I am: Someone without a conscience.
I admit, I do feel a mild distaste for you... Grin

You are welcome to condemn be for being a dick. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #42 - Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:56pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 19th, 2019 at 1:46pm:
I explained it in the thread.
No you didn't. This is one of the reasons I feel that mild distaste for you. Kiss
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #43 - Nov 20th, 2019 at 8:33pm
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Jeff,
You are not a libertarian.  You aren't even a classical liberal as you claim (you don't even know what a classical liberal is since that is not what they called themselves then).

You are an angry, sick old man who wants to see the world burn for your failures.
  
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #44 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:00am
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yamcha wrote on Nov 20th, 2019 at 8:33pm:
Jeff,
You are not a libertarian.  You aren't even a classical liberal as you claim (you don't even know what a classical liberal is since that is not what they called themselves then).

You are an angry, sick old man who wants to see the world burn for your failures.


Correct, Jeff is definitely not a classic liberal.  The most basic tenet of classic liberalism is that legitimate government has the consent of the governed.  Jeff actually believes government can conquer citizens who no longer consent and force them to stay in the union. 

Jeff says he believes in consent of the governed, but he made up his own definition for it where your great, great, great, great grandfather can consent on your behalf, which is clearly NOT what John Locke (father of classic liberalism) wrote and it's not what classic liberals believe.

In reality, that you consent yourself to a government does not mean that you can't withdraw that consent tomorrow if the government becomes tyrannical, as I have done with the Federal government.  Jeff's view someone else can consent for you is just delusional, and no classic liberal believes that.

The whole writings of the Founding Fathers was that they wanted to be armed in case government became tyrannical.   Jeff's answer if that happens is government should conquer you.  He can believe that, but he can't believe he's a classic liberal since he does
  

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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #45 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:19am
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:00am:
Correct, Jeff is definitely not a classic liberal.  The most basic tenet of classic liberalism is that legitimate government has the consent of the governed.  Jeff actually believes government can conquer citizens who no longer consent and force them to stay in the union. 

I do not.

I suggest you read Story's BOOK 3, CHAPTER 3

Nature of the Constitution – Whether a Compact

https://lonang.com/library/reference/story-commentaries-us-constitution/sto-303/

You have the erroneous idea that the Constitution is of the nature of a treaty between the States. It is not.

Anyway, the people who were conquered (and later allowed to rejoin the union as free states) had left the Union, created their own nation, attacked a federal fort, and sent troops into U.S. Territory with conquest in mind.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #46 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:24am
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:00am:
Jeff says he believes in consent of the governed, but he made up his own definition for it where your great, great, great, great grandfather can consent on your behalf, which is clearly NOT what John Locke (father of classic liberalism) wrote and it's not what classic liberals believe.

My belief is that classical liberals understood that consent was granted when the Constitution was ratified by the People, and that as long as the People maintain the right to alter the government by legal means, that consent is maintained. The consent is to the form of government, not to every act or policy that any of the governments involved in the compact might do.

What do you think classical liberals believe(d)?

What's your idea of the concept of "consent of the governed"?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #47 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:30am
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:00am:
The whole writings of the Founding Fathers was that they wanted to be armed in case government became tyrannical.   Jeff's answer if that happens is government should conquer you.  He can believe that, but he can't believe he's a classic liberal since he does
The CSA was constituted as a separate nation simply because the slave states could see the handwriting on the wall. When enough free states were admitted to the Union, the Constitution was going to be amended to abolish slavery.

All of the writings of the Founding Fathers of the Confederacy were concerned with the preservation and extension of human chattel slavery. No libertarian or classical liberal would choose the CSA over the Union of free states... But you do.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #48 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 10:51am
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kaz wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 8:00am:
Correct, Jeff is definitely not a classic liberal.


Correct, he's a pure libertarian. He follows the NAP and nothing else.

He twists words (not aggression), lobbies for aggression (not aggression), and lies about what aggression is and isn't (also not aggression, and a great way to make money if you can get people punished).

Jeff is an absolutely perfect example of what someone following Rothbardian Anarcho-Capitalism actually presents as.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Jeff, why do you always have to be a dick?
Reply #49 - Nov 21st, 2019 at 3:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:19am:
You have the erroneous idea that the Constitution is of the nature of a treaty between the States. It is not


There is no possible way to get that I think that out of anything I said, drunken man

Jeff wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:19am:
Anyway, the people who were conquered (and later allowed to rejoin the union as free states) had left the Union, created their own nation, attacked a federal fort


Jeff:  I don't think the Federal government can conquer it's citizens to force them to stay in the Union, kaz, unless they try to leave.  See the difference?

No, I don't

Jeff wrote on Nov 21st, 2019 at 9:19am:
and sent troops into U.S. Territory with conquest in mind.


You're a fvcking retard who knows nothing about history.  They wanted to conquer the North and rule it?  Have you ever seen a history book?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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