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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) All roads lead to Rome (Read 305 times)
yamcha
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All roads lead to Rome
Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:35pm
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It seems all forms of government, including Libertarianism, eventually will degrade or evolve to big government or even tyranny.

In my opinion, anarchy/volunteerism is the only peaceful way. that along with no victim no crime.

I would guess the very, very best place to be in would be a homogeneous society ruled by a good and passive king or dictator as long as you are in one of the upper classes.

Seems there will always be those doing well and those not, no way around it.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: All road lead to Rome
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:44pm
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I've never been a fan of the "that kind of government doesn't work" argument, because it seems to me that they all collapse.

The problem is that a civilised society favours traits (like fearlessness for example) that are not conducive to maintaining a civilised society.

The better society becomes, the safer it becomes. The safer it becomes, the more highly risk-takers are advantaged. The risk-taking behaviour increases and when everyone is doing it, society can no longer insulate against its ill effects.

While most people play it safe, risk-takers will be insulated and boosted to the top. They can't lose and starve - the absolute worst that can happen to them is that they end up working for a living like the rest of us - but they can make massive gains.

When everyone becomes a risk-taker, there's just not enough insulation to go around.

There's also the idiocracy problem. A civilised society without specific programmes in place to advantage the exceptional will massively advantage the very bottom of the barrel.

Not just idiocracy, but the spray and pray strategy becomes the right one, at everyone else's expense.

And there's also instant gratification to consider. With government breathing down your neck and sniffing for anything to tax away, and scams lurking round every corner, the logical strategy is to never accumulate anything. Eat everything you get right away. Then it's all yours.

I could probably write a book about how many traits a civilised society selects for that are destroyers of civilisation. It's really simple though, at least in theory: Counter every instance and you have a society that lasts forever.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:46pm
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instead of writing a book, why not just a long post of what you think would be the best way for us all to live.  I would love to read it.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:52pm
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yamcha wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
instead of writing a book, why not just a long post of what you think would be the best way for us all to live.  I would love to read it.


I used to care about my own ideas of best, but I don't anymore. I see it as selfish and wrong to presume that I should tell other people how to live.

All I want now is to be a Libertarian. I am absolutely convinced that it is right, I just don't seem to be able to advocate it in a way that doesn't make the bigger Libertarians upset.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:02pm
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The Opposition wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
All I want now is to be a Libertarian. I am absolutely convinced that it is right, I just don't seem to be able to advocate it in a way that doesn't make the bigger Libertarians upset.

Don't worry about acceptance from other libertarians.

Life, Liberty, and Property - everyone was born with these inalienable rights.  If you can embrace this idea, you have what it takes to be (a) libertarian, as this idea is the cornerstone of all libertarian ideals.

Don't worry if other pseudo-libertarians criticize you for what you believe.

"All political parties (other than the Libertarian Party) grant to government the authority to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society. " Libertarian Party preamble
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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yamcha
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:07pm
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Was listening to a well-regulated debate between conservatives and libertarians on the plane yesterday.  Both had some strong arguments but neither side seemed to be conclusive on most issues.

I think we have to look at how far technology has gone too.

So let's say that you do something that pisses me off and I assemble a weaponized drone made from different parts manufacturers and make it so none of the shit can be traced back to me.  Now let's say I operate it from half the halfway around the world over a 5g network and land it on your head and explode it. 

I am not one for revising or rewriting the American Constitution but things sure have changed since then.  It is silly for Chief and all these other guys being worried about getting their guns taken away when now we can already printout much deadlier guns than we can ever buy and there is technology that allows us to make much more powerful weapons than guns.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:24pm
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yamcha wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:07pm:
  It is silly for Chief and all these other guys being worried about getting their guns taken away when now we can already printout much deadlier guns than we can ever buy and there is technology that allows us to make much more powerful weapons than guns.
I'm not worried that my guns will be taken away - - they won't.

I'm worried about what I must do to the people who attempt to take them from me.  What will I tell their wives?  Their kids?
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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yamcha
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:37pm
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You know what I am talking about Chief.  Guns are old tech and it doesn't matter if they are taken away.  There is much deadlier shit now.

I heard they can just cruise by your house and x-ray it and know everything in there.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #8 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 2:13am
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yamcha wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
You know what I am talking about Chief.  Guns are old tech and it doesn't matter if they are taken away.  There is much deadlier shit now.

I heard they can just cruise by your house and x-ray it and know everything in there.

I was going to say that I don't fear the government, but that would be a lie.   I'm scared to death of them because they grow more powerful each day. 

Each Law that passes in Congress doesn't give us more liberty and freedom - it only takes them away.

"Any time power is granted to the government, it is done so at the expense of the liberty of the governed."  - me

“When the government fears the people there is liberty.  When the people fear the government there is tyranny.” - Thomas Jefferson

I'm afraid that I might be Red Flagged by someone who doesn't like me.

I was fitting a laser sight to my (unloaded) Ruger MINI 14 carbine INSIDE MY garage where my workshop is located. 

The door was open(is was really hot - around 88° F) and a cleaning lady who was walking to her car saw me, freaked out, and "reported" me to the HOA.

The funny thing is, I'm ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.   The day after the cleaning lady saw me, I received an e-mail from the HOA president demanding that I keep my garage door closed while I'm servicing my firearms.

I asked her to cite a law or HOA regulation which requires me to do that.  Of course she couldn't, so she said she will call a special impeachment hearing.

That's right - I'M BEING IMPEACHED.   Angry
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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yamcha
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Re: All roads lead to Rome
Reply #9 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 6:05am
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Fukk.  You hire the spics to scrub the toilet and now they report you for what you do in your garage?
  
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