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Poll Question: Ivory Farms
bars   pie

Total Autonomy for Ivory Farms    
  2 (66.7%)
Some Protection for Elephants    
  1 (33.3%)




Total votes: 3
This Poll ends automatically in 6 days, 6 hours and 59 minutes.
« Created by: The Opposition on: Dec 1st, 2019 at 2:04pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To... (Read 687 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #30 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:22pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:13pm:
No, I was not envisioning any due process for animals.  There exists not a job title of Animal Control Officer (in my state).  They are there among other things, to prevent animals from biting humans.  I assume Kaz would want them also prevented from chasing cats, killing birds, weaving webs on which to trap and eat insects. 


I don't think he would because I don't think he believes it's a Human's right to punish an animal for what it does to another animal. The animal may still have done wrong, but that doesn't mean we may punish it.

Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:13pm:
Kaz did not set any size limit for what type of animal he wants the government to use stolen money to protect from cruelty. 

He also, very typically, did not set a size limit on the budget for his new agencies.


Charity is a logical principle. So let me be charitable.

Loser-pays. When Kaz removes my tiger from me, it's worth at least this much dead:

https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-leopard-skin-rug-circa-1925-5326992-de...
(About $1500)

...So even if they can't sell it alive, just the seizures would be enough to cover the costs. They could then use the excess toward protecting other animals that weren't worth as much.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #31 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:50pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:13pm:
They are there among other things, to prevent animals from biting humans


No worries, your mom can bite you all she wants.  Which is apparently all you want
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #32 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 8:54am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:40pm:
Pretend the raccoons in that video are elephants being skinned alive, or having their tusks ripped out while they're alive, then they're left to bleed to death because it's expensive to kill them.

Poachers shoot them before they take their tusks because it's otherwise very dangerous.

It costs very little to kill one.

Anyone doing what you describe would be a fool, and also be guilty of cruelty to animals.

Libertarians support laws that punish cruelty to animals.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #33 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 8:59am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 8:54pm:
Kaz does not believe that animals have rights. However, he does believe that a legitimate, libertarian, minarchist government is within its legitimate powers to protect those animals.

...From abuse, I assume.

...From what... libertarians think is abuse. I assume.

Here's some reading on where U.S. law stands on the subject:

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/03/what-is-considered-animal-cruelty-unde...

Whether or not libertarians had any part in creating these laws is unknown, but libertarians in general think these laws have it about right.

  

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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #34 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:31am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:13pm:
I assume Kaz would want them also prevented from chasing cats, killing birds, weaving webs on which to trap and eat insects.


I do believe you assume that with you being stupid and all

Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:13pm:
Kaz did not set any size limit for what type of animal he wants the government to use stolen money to protect from cruelty. 

He also, very typically, did not set a size limit on the budget for his new agencies.




I said I'm in favor of laws protecting animals from torture and I'm in favor of laws that require proving you can take care of intelligent, exotic animals before you can get one.  You'd know that other than, as we know, you're stupid.

Not sure what new agencies you're talking about.  I'm guessing it's the stupid thing ... again ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #35 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:38am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 8:54pm:
...By Kaz's definition, which is the only correct one.



I've repeatedly said that I think most people on the site ARE basically libertarian.  That includes Ahhell who says he's not one.  I think he mostly is.

The two I said are not are obviously not.  Don is as you know a socialist.  Jeff says many libertarian things, but he says many very unlibertarian things, about the same subjects.  You can't call someone who takes both sides of every subject an anything.

We've repeatedly discussed this, and I've repeatedly called you on your lie that I think I'm the only libertarian.  It's one of the reasons you're on suspension through January.  Since you want to persist in this lie, let's just go ahead and extend your suspension another three months through April.

You are free to disagree with me.  But I'm tired of you lying about what I said.  If you ever decide you will stop lying about what I say, then we can talk.  So far, it appears that isn't going to happen.   Fvck you, piece of shit
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #36 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:45am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:56pm:
There is libertarian position on whether government should force people to use not use golf carts on golf courses


Yes, there is.  But that isn't what I said.

So how did your family's annual reenactment of Deliverance go this year where you play the part of Ned Beatty?  You do always look forward to that

Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 7:56pm:
There is  libertarian position on whether government or elephant owners should decide how elephants are treated.



You're full of shit, there are many libertarians on both sides of this issue.   But then you are just trolling the board anyway as Super Libertarian Man!!!!

Look, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's a lump of shit that thinks it can fly!!!!!!
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #37 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:49am
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Little Biq Man wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 8:13pm:
If animals have rights that a libertarian government would be in the business of protecting, that government will be mighty busy.  Few humans have ever been as cruel to animals as other animals are. I'm guessing that the first mission you would assign to the new agencies required for this would be protecting dolphins and seals from sharks?

Or perhaps protecting small animals and insects from elephants?  Their feet seem almost designed to kill as many of them as possible with every step. 

Well, it's your idea, I'll let you explain it.  Which animal on animal cruelty will your proposed new agencies eliminate first?

   

No idea what you're talking about, gay boy

  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #38 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:51am
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kaz wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:38am:
Jeff says many libertarian things, but he says many very unlibertarian things...

I'm most accurately described as a classical liberal. Smiley I think that's a libertarian who values living in a civilized society!
  

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kaz
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Re: Should An Ivory Business be Allowed To...
Reply #39 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 10:16am
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Jeff wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:51am:
I'm most accurately described as a classical liberal. Smiley I think that's a libertarian who values living in a civilized society!


The foundation of classic liberalism is consent of the governed, which you don't support.  So no, you aren't a classic liberal
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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