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Little Big Man
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Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Dec 6th, 2019 at 12:18pm
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(CNN)A sick Guatemalan boy who died in government custody was lying on the floor for hours before someone found him dead, a video first obtained by ProPublica shows.

The boy, identified by a US Customs and Border Protection official as Carlos Gregorio Hernandez Vasquez, 16, died on May 20 at a Border Patrol station in Weslaco, Texas, days after he crossed into the US and was apprehended by immigration officials, CBP said.


When a minor child is in your custody, you are responsible for their safety, welfare, health and education according to U.S. law.



CBP had previously said in a statement that agents at the Weslaco station found Carlos unresponsive during a welfare check.

But Border Patrol logs obtained by ProPublica indicate that three welfare checks were done on Carlos over the period in which the video suggests the boy laid on the floor. The logs do not indicate how those checks were done or note that anything was amiss.
CNN has not independently obtained the Border Patrol logs.


Hard to imagine how a "welfare check" could miss that a person is dead.


When asked about the video, a CBP spokesperson said the investigation into Carlos' death was ongoing.

"While we cannot discuss specific information or details of this investigation, we can tell you that the Department of Homeland Security and this agency are looking into all aspects of this case to ensure all procedures were followed," the spokesperson said.


Really?  It happened May 20th.  It is on video and there are written records.  But they are still "looking into all aspects?"

How many times have we heard the phrase "ongoing investigation" as an excuse to hide information from the taxpaying citizens that the federal government purports to work for? 

I can't wait to hear how the statists on here justify this one.
  

Snarky no more!
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kaz
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2019 at 1:05pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Dec 6th, 2019 at 12:18pm:
(CNN)A sick Guatemalan boy who died in government custody was lying on the floor for hours before someone found him dead, a video first obtained by ProPublica shows.

The boy, identified by a US Customs and Border Protection official as Carlos Gregorio Hernandez Vasquez, 16, died on May 20 at a Border Patrol station in Weslaco, Texas, days after he crossed into the US and was apprehended by immigration officials, CBP said.


When a minor child is in your custody, you are responsible for their safety, welfare, health and education according to U.S. law.



CBP had previously said in a statement that agents at the Weslaco station found Carlos unresponsive during a welfare check.

But Border Patrol logs obtained by ProPublica indicate that three welfare checks were done on Carlos over the period in which the video suggests the boy laid on the floor. The logs do not indicate how those checks were done or note that anything was amiss.
CNN has not independently obtained the Border Patrol logs.


Hard to imagine how a "welfare check" could miss that a person is dead.


When asked about the video, a CBP spokesperson said the investigation into Carlos' death was ongoing.

"While we cannot discuss specific information or details of this investigation, we can tell you that the Department of Homeland Security and this agency are looking into all aspects of this case to ensure all procedures were followed," the spokesperson said.


Really?  It happened May 20th.  It is on video and there are written records.  But they are still "looking into all aspects?"

How many times have we heard the phrase "ongoing investigation" as an excuse to hide information from the taxpaying citizens that the federal government purports to work for? 

I can't wait to hear how the statists on here justify this one.


You made a HUGE leap to concluding it was negligent homicide.  That makes many major assumptions.  Pretty pathetic that you would possibly just believe the press to completely without even a clear description of what exactly happened.

It should certainly be investigated.  Any conclusion beyond that is just you being a stooge of the leftist media.

The parents should also be investigated for negligent homicide for taking their children with them while they go commit a crime
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2019 at 3:40pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Dec 6th, 2019 at 12:18pm:
When a minor child is in your custody, you are responsible for their safety, welfare, health and education according to U.S. law.
U.S. law also makes you culpable for recklessly endangering the life of a child.

We need better immigration laws.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #3 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:20am
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kaz wrote on Dec 6th, 2019 at 1:05pm:
The parents should also be investigated for negligent homicide for taking their children with them while they go commit a crime


Well, it might legally be a crime, but it shouldn't be a crime.

That's the argument you'll get, anyway. Is it negligent to take your child with you when you go on a picnic? Well, no. But would it be if the government made picnics illegal? Most libertarians would probably still say no, because then it would be the government's fault alone for punishing the innocent picnickers.

So we have it reduced to the same question: Should crossing the border actually be illegal? If the act is innocent and shouldn't be a crime, the parents are innocent, even if the death of a child is the result.

You're basically saying that living in Nazi Germany while being Jewish and having kids is negligence. If - iff - the crossing of a border actually is an innocent act. Iff it shouldn't be a crime.

But I can see the other side of this too. They're basically hurling sick children en masse at the US and daring the country to let them die. What if we actually didn't have the resources to treat them? What if there wasn't infinite helicopter money to throw at doctors if need be, to get these kids treated? Or worse yet, what if there weren't those doctors? I have to think it would be the parents' fault - entirely so - then.

Imagine for just one second that it's private, personal property we're talking about, even though that's a bad analogy when most aspects of the issue are considered. Imagine you own a house, and the same person tries to get into it every day. Every day, you come home to find he's gotten in, again, somehow. You've tried every security measure you can think of and he's foiled them all.

All the NAP allows is for you to eject him from your property. Trespassers do not deserve death, nor do thieves actually.

So imagine you get so sick of your house not being yours that one day you chain the perennial squatter to a lamp post to stop him from getting back in your house while you're gone. He gets sick and dies. Maybe he even just thirsts to death.

Well, this is why we have jails. The NAP isn't enough to deter aggression. If the case of trespass or theft, the NAP names much of the possible retaliation as itself aggression.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #4 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 10:57am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:20am:
Well, it might legally be a crime, but it shouldn't be a crime.

Recklessly endangering a child shouldn't be a crime? You really believe that?

Certainly a case can be made that staying in many countries around the world recklessly endangers your children, perhaps to the point that it's deemed safer to take them illegally into the U.S., but it seems disingenuous to me to posit that only the U.S. is responsible for the safety of foreign national children... There is plenty of culpability to go around.

I would say, first in line are the governments that create (or allow) situations where their citizens are trying to escape to safety; next in line are the parents who made the decision that illegal immigration would be a more prudent choice than staying home; and last, ICE agents, who are not in general monsters, but mostly good people trying to do an impossible job.

Better immigration laws are the best we can do on our end... Maybe conquering Mexico would help even more.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #5 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:21pm
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Crossing a border shouldn't be a crime, according to the Libertarian Party.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
Crossing a border shouldn't be a crime, according to the Libertarian Party.
One of the reasons they have so little support.
  

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kaz
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:32pm
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Jeff wrote on Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:31pm:
One of the reasons they have so little support.


Yep, and the main reason I have never joined the party
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:53pm
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Well I don't claim to know whether crossing the border should be a crime or not.

I'm just saying that iff crossing the border really shouldn't be a crime, calling parents negligent that they take their kids while doing it would be a lot like calling Jews living in Nazi Germany negligent, because they have their kids with them while being Jewish.

The only possible difference (again, iff crossing the border really shouldn't be a crime) is that the Jews living there before Hitler may have not been aware of the danger, though arguably they knew how strong antisemitism was and they knew Hitler basically ran on it.

The immigrants are throwing sick children at us and daring us to let them die, I think because they know that if we do, that's our bad.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Another Negligent Homicide by Customs and Border Patrol
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2019 at 2:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 7th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
Crossing a border shouldn't be a crime, according to the Libertarian Party.
BTW, crossing the border legally, maybe to go on vacation in Vegas... That's not a crime.
  

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