Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 12 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't (Read 1120 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 10367
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #70 - Dec 9th, 2019 at 9:13am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2019 at 8:09am:
He's helping keep the economy unhealthy, and most of what is making the economy look as good as it might to some is the result of lies and manipulation.

I agree with you, the stock market, and corporate profits, are "booming" right now, but I think those are bad signs, not good. Not in light of everything else in the economy besides the stock market and corporate profits.


Right, Jeff.  All those people working now and all the money companies are making are just lies and manipulations.

Quote:  It is better to keep ones mouth closed and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt

Think about it, Jeff.  They could have been talking personally to you
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 53055
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #71 - Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:15am
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 9th, 2019 at 9:13am:
Right, Jeff.  All those people working now and all the money companies are making are just lies and manipulations.
You think Trump is doing great things for our economy, I think he's done a few good things, and some very bad things.

Is there any point in discussing this further between us? I don't think so.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 10367
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #72 - Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:28am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:15am:
You think Trump is doing great things for our economy


No.  I know you're stupid and all, but you seriously can't read.  I said the economy is booming.  Nowhere did I say he's doing even good things much less "great" things for the economy.  Like everything else you say, you pulled it out of your ass.  Democrats live in a black and white world where everything is Republican or Democrat.  You think to criticize Democrats is to advocate Republicans, and vice versa.

I've repeatedly said he's done nothing for the economy.  The only great thing about that is that everything your precious Democrat party does for the economy is bad.  So his doing nothing is a drastic improvement.

You really are stupid, Jeff.  You constantly see things that aren't there.  You just make your shit up as you go because you can't follow an argument.  The DTs don't help either, huh, drunk off your ass boy?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 10367
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #73 - Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:38am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:15am:
.

Is there any point in discussing this further between us? I don't think so.


You made clear what you are when you said we should turn over our military security and protection of property to an international cabal of leftists.  Then you endlessly repeated that position.  You truly hate this country
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 53055
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #74 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 2:17pm
Print Post  
This is where I was talking about the government lying about unemployment, inflation and GDP, right?

Karl Denninger is really upset about another lie, that paying a debt is "saving". Cheesy

"Meanwhile with no interest paid on anything there is no longer any reason to, nor any realistic, "saving" whatsoever.  Basic economics tells us that savings = investment, yet we now "redefine" the "savings rate" to include paying debt, which most-certainly is not "saving" in that the very definition of "saving" is that you still have it, while paying a debt results in money that's not yours anymore.

In other words when the facts don't comport with whatever the government wants to hear they just flat-out lie."

From here:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=237545

WARNING! Strong language and opinions!

"The stock market has soared but what else has gone up?  Well, in the last 10 years the Federal Government has nearly doubled spending on Medicare and Medicaid.  You were told it would go down, and so would your health insurance and medical costs, after the ACA was passed.  The very name "Affordable Care Act" was a fraud and yet not one politician, including Black Bastard (some call him Black Jesus) went to prison for that outrage, nor did Pelosi, nor did any of the 60 Senators who voted for it including Bernie ****face Sanders."
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 53055
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #75 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 2:18pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 9th, 2019 at 10:38am:
You made clear what you are when you said we should turn over our military security and protection of property to an international cabal of leftists.
You're really coming unhinged. Take a vacation. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 10367
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #76 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 5:09pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Dec 10th, 2019 at 2:18pm:
You're really coming unhinged. Take a vacation. Smiley


It was your quote and I already showed it to you.  The brain cells are just dying at this point, drunkard.  Have you considered cutting back on the drinking while you have any left?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 53055
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #77 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 5:17pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 10th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
It was your quote and I already showed it to you. 
No need to do that. You would be much better served by looking at what you post. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 53055
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #78 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 10th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
Have you considered cutting back on the drinking while you have any left?
No. I thought I told you, I plan to be an alcoholic when I'm 80, if I live that long. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Little Biq Man
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1405
Joined: Mar 17th, 2019
Re: Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Reply #79 - Dec 19th, 2019 at 8:02pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Dec 6th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
All taxes are coercion, all taxes are extortion.  Direct and indirect.

Real libertarians are therefore bothered by all taxes.  However, small government libertarians realize that not having property rights protected, not having police, not having military or courts actually reduces our liberty.

The Chief and I get into that all the time.  But in the end, we agree.  Direct taxes are just evil.  Indirect taxes are completely unsavory, but we don't maximize our liberty by eliminating the basic functions of a minarchist government, so we reluctantly accept them.  We don't like them, but they are necessary.  We want free markets in all possible cases, but in cases where there must be general acceptance, like property rights, we realize we have no other solution.  So we accept them.  Hesitatingly, it bothers us, but we can't solve it any other way.

However, Jeff isn't bothered by taxes.  Not at all.  He wants the United States to be the world's power, so he unhesitatingly accepts government conquering citizens who withdraw our consent.  He wants government indoctrination camps, so redistribution of wealth is fine with him.

Jeff doesn't possess the basic view of libertarian.  He thinks government and taxes are perfectly fine if they are validated by tyranny of the majority.  They don't bother him at all.  So to him, they aren't coerced, he has no problem with them.

Frankly, it's sick and there could be nothing less libertarian than Jeff having a completely unhesitating attitude to government coercing wealth from its citizens.  Directly or indirectly.

QED, Opposition.  The dude isn't libertarian


Great wisdom in all that you said.  I have to take issue respectfully with the part in blue.  I think you give up too easily. 

It is similar to the eventual desire for open borders that all true libertarians have.  We know that this is our ideal.  If we did not, we would not be libertarians because we would not believe in freedom of movement.  We know we should strive for it even if we are not exactly certain how to reach that goal.  We believe that as we become more and more free, a solution will either present itself naturally or human ingenuity will arrive at one.

However . . . we know that in the real world currently existing, our de facto open borders are a disaster for us.  The libertarian belief is to view closing the borders as a temporary fix until we can solve the problems that make open borders a disaster.  We know that disaster follows open borders, the idea of open borders is not proven wrong.  What is proven is that there are many problems to be fixed before we open the borders.

Imagine a person who, when told that open borders are an attainable libertarian idea, screamed and whined and bitched and puled that open borders are the reason MS13 traffics pre-pube girls into Kansas and why that woman in San Fran was shot and why our schools are so crowded that kids drop out of high school in despair and then those high school dropouts can't find honest jobs because the Latin Americans work cheaper.   Would you believe that he is really uncomfortable with closed borders but just can't see how to open them?  Or would you think that he loves the idea of keeping the borders closed forever but does not want to admit it while claiming to be libertarian?

I hate to say it, but when you say that you are reluctantly in favor of taxes, it reminds me of Nancy saying that the Dems are solemnly and prayerfully (and reluctantly) impeaching the president.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 12
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Libertarians are bothered by all taxes, Jeff isn't
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy