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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Consent *** (Read 346 times)
kaz
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #20 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:30am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:31am:
So, you do not object to being called a "statist," since you consistenly favor the powers of states over the rights of individuals?

I take it you go along with Kaz' assertion that "the people" really means, "the citizens."

You believe that blacks in America were not people until the constitution was amended to say they were?



"We The People of the United States"

Mommy's Little Man:  WTF, that doesn't include people in Algiers???  WTF, kaz.  Obviously the Founders of the United States wrote a Constitution for the world.  We're all citizens of the world, kaz.  Didn't you know that?

Your socialism is oozing through your socks, Don.  I don't even know what you're trying to imply by your claim you don't know that the Constitution was written specifically for the United States.

Do they even wear socks in Algiers?


  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #21 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:41am
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kaz wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:30am:
"We The People of the United States"

Mommy's Little Man:  WTF, that doesn't include people in Algiers???  WTF, kaz.  Obviously the Founders of the United States wrote a Constitution for the world.  We're all citizens of the world, kaz.  Didn't you know that?


I never said anything about he world.  That's your strawman.  You can prop it up and knock it down all you want, it doesn't change anything.

Quote:
Your socialism is oozing through your socks, Don.  I don't even know what you're trying to imply by your claim you don't know that the Constitution was written specifically for the United States.



Yes, and black people in the thirteen states were people of the united states. 

Even the most vile slavers wanted them to be counted as 3/5 of a person.

  

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kaz
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #22 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:44am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:41am:
I never said anything about he world.  That's your strawman.  You can prop it up and knock it down all you want, it doesn't change anything.


Yes, and black people in the thirteen states were people of the united states. 

Even the most vile slavers wanted them to be counted as 3/5 of a person.



Yes, you do get a tear in your eye every time you talk about your opposition to slavery.  It's really personal to you.  Damn it, it's just wrong.  I feel you.  The rest of us don't think we need to be so self congratulatory in opposing slavery, but most of us didn't own slaves like you did.

So how many slaves did you own before you caught anti-slavery fever?  Did you let them go or did you make them earn their freedom to pay you back for buying them?  Did you deduct the losses on your taxes?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #23 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 11:02am
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kaz wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 10:44am:
Yes, you do get a tear in your eye every time you talk about your opposition to slavery.  It's really personal to you.  Damn it, it's just wrong.  I feel you.  The rest of us don't think we need to be so self congratulatory in opposing slavery, but most of us didn't own slaves like you did.

So how many slaves did you own before you caught anti-slavery fever?  Did you let them go or did you make them earn their freedom to pay you back for buying them?  Did you deduct the losses on your taxes?


Kaz:  I admit defeat.


  

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kaz
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 11:11am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 11:02am:
Kaz:  I admit defeat.




Yeah.   That you can't discuss the Constitution without virtue signalling your opposition to slavery is me conceding defeat.

You're Jeff all over again.

But seriously, no one is a virulently anti-smoking as an ex-smoker.  That you can't move past you're against slavery even 160 years after your position was relevant is a total tell.

So what did you do with your slaves?  Did you kill them to cover the evidence?  What are you hiding with your over the top need to repeatedly scream your opposition to slavery?

Mommy's Little Man:  I'm against slavery.  Really, I am.  I mean it.  Um ... you guys believe me, right?  I'm against slavery?  I mean I am against slavery.  Yeah, that's it, slavery is wrong, guys, it's just wrong.  I'd never do that.  I'd never own a person.  It's just wrong I say.  It's just wrong.  Sure it is, that's what I think.  Yeah ...
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:23pm by kaz »  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #25 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:13pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:31am:
...you consistenly favor the powers of states over the rights of individuals?
This is simply not true.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #26 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:17pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:31am:
I take it you go along with Kaz' assertion that "the people" really means, "the citizens."

Currently, the 14th Amendment defines citizenship.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #27 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:21pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:31am:
You believe that blacks in America were not people until the constitution was amended to say they were?
As I said, no slave state defined a slave as a citizen. Slave owners probably held differing opinions as to whether black people were really people, or not, but that issue is no longer important. That they were denied their rights for a long time is undeniable.
  

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Re: Consent ***
Reply #28 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:45pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:43am:
Are you saying consent is relative?


Yes dude and I am not the one saying the early united states had it either.

I am not good enough on history to say that I just learn enough to get an A on the tests and then forget it cause I don't really care lol. I got an A in some kind of history class don't even remember what it was about now.

For now I say you are right about the slaves that is not consent to me. But not the women cause most of em were not crying give me vote give me vote. I think most did not vote against their husbands anyway and most had husbands so 1 house 1 vote for the man only was fair.

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:43am:
But those facts can be measured in grams, or kilograms more likely. 


OK but there is not units to measure everything. If 90% of the people are 100% happy and the other 10% are 0% happy that is probably 90% consent right?

OK well what if 90% of the people are 51% happy and other 10% are still 0% happy? That is like mega unrest well if you just asked them yes or no you could only measure the same result as the other one cause irl there is no way to measure what % a person is happy see?

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:43am:
You are saying that consent cannot be measured and therefore must either be pressumed unless the pressumption can be rebutted.  Since your premise is that, even if a government openly uses its guns to control citizens and enforce taxation, the presumption is that the people consent, it would be impossible to say that the people do not consent to government. 


No I am not saying it has gotta be presumed I am saying you feel it out look for clues but you can't measure it exactly.

It will only ever be inductive logic and I know that sucks but there's lots of things like that.

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 9:43am:
You would be more honest to say that you believe that government is necessary, so consent is not an issue.

You were clever to title your post "consent," not "consent of the governed," which is the more common phrase.  You can deny blacks are people, but you cannot deny that whatever species you think they are, they were certainly governed under the constitution.


I did not title any post but I do think government is necessary to protect life liberty and property.

If you believe in absolute consent then you cannot even have the NAP to use against other cause that murdery guy did not consent to have it used on him he wants to murder and no consequences.

Absolute consent means every time you use force and yeah that is governing you gotta have consent no one would that is why it is force but then you would just be a pacifist see?
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Consent ***
Reply #29 - Jan 10th, 2020 at 12:50pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 10th, 2020 at 11:11am:
Yeah.   That you can't discuss the Constitution without virtue signalling your opposition to slavery is me conceding defeat.

You're Jeff all over again.

But seriously, no one is a virulently anti-smoking as an ex-smoker.  That you can't move past you're against slavery even 160 years after your position was relevant is a total tell.

So what did you do with your slaves?  Did you kill them to cover the evidence?  What are you hiding with your over the top need to repeatedly scream your opposition to slavery?

Mommy's Little Man:  I'm against slavery.  Really, I am.  I mean it.  Um ... you guys believe me, right?  I'm against slavery?  I mean I am against slavery.  Yeah, that's it, slavery is wrong, guys, it's just wrong.  I'd never do that.  I'd never own a person.  It's just wrong I say.  It's just wrong.  Sure it is, that's what I think.  Yeah ...


Kaz:  The people of the United States consented to the Constitution.  Except for the people who didn't consent, but they don't count as people so the people consented.

  

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